FVWM: Documentation

[Jason Timrod]

Hi everyone!

I notice that there's only the man page for fvwm and some unofficial tutorial. Are they any plans to improve the documentation of fvwm? the man page is huge, and it does explain every option but not always how to use it.

this makes learning fvwm difficult.

Are they such plans?

Jason

[Glyn Millington]

Post by Jason Timrod
Hi everyone!
I notice that there's only the man page for fvwm and some unofficial
tutorial. Are they any plans to improve the documentation of fvwm? the
man page is huge, and it does explain every option but not always how
to use it.
this makes learning fvwm difficult.
Are they such plans?

Well
ls /usr/local/share/man/man1 gives me, amongst other things

FvwmAnimate.1
FvwmAuto.1
FvwmBacker.1
FvwmBanner.1
FvwmButtons.1
FvwmCommand.1
FvwmConsole.1
FvwmConsoleC.pl.1
FvwmCpp.1
FvwmDebug.1
FvwmDragWell.1
FvwmEvent.1
FvwmForm.1
FvwmGtk.1
FvwmGtkDebug.1
FvwmIconBox.1
FvwmIconMan.1
FvwmIdent.1
FvwmM4.1
FvwmPager.1
FvwmPerl.1
FvwmProxy.1
FvwmRearrange.1
FvwmSave.1
FvwmSaveDesk.1
FvwmScript.1
FvwmScroll.1
FvwmTabs.1
FvwmTaskBar.1
FvwmTheme.1
FvwmWharf.1
FvwmWinList.1
FvwmWindowMenu.1
fvwm-bug.1
fvwm-config.1
fvwm-convert-2.4.1
fvwm-convert-2.6.1
fvwm-menu-desktop.1
fvwm-menu-directory.1
fvwm-menu-headlines.1
fvwm-menu-xlock.1
fvwm-perllib.1
fvwm-root.1
fvwm.1
fvwm2.1


Glyn

[Jason Timrod]

Post by Glyn Millington
Well
ls /usr/local/share/man/man1 gives me, amongst other things
FvwmAnimate.1

[...]

Yes, but that's just for modules, isn't it? Overall, there's alot of docs to read there! I was hoping for something more hands-on. I can always use those man pages to look up information as I need to.

Cheers,

Jason

[rolf crozier]

Post by Jason Timrod

Post by Glyn Millington
Well
ls /usr/local/share/man/man1 gives me, amongst other things
FvwmAnimate.1

[...]
Yes, but that's just for modules, isn't it? Overall, there's alot of docs to read there! I was hoping for something more hands-on. I can always use those man pages to look up information as I need to.

Ah, a project presents itself! More robust documentation and real-world
examples are always welcome in almost any opens source project.

-rolf

[Thomas Adam]

Post by rolf crozier

Post by Jason Timrod

Post by Glyn Millington
Well
ls /usr/local/share/man/man1 gives me, amongst other things
FvwmAnimate.1

[...]
Yes, but that's just for modules, isn't it? Overall, there's alot of docs to read there! I was hoping for something more hands-on. I can always use those man pages to look up information as I need to.

Ah, a project presents itself! More robust documentation and
real-world examples are always welcome in almost any opens source
project.

We have the wiki for such contributions.

Jason, please read the mailing list archives for past discussions about
this.

-- Thomas Adam

[Jason Timrod]

Ah, a project presents itself!  More robust
documentation and real-world
examples are always welcome in almost any opens source
project.

I cant do this myself, i dont have the knowledge!

Jason

[d***@verizon.net]

Post by Jason Timrod
Hi everyone!
I notice that there's only the man page for fvwm and some unofficial
tutorial. Are they any plans to improve the documentation of fvwm? the
man page is huge, and it does explain every option but not always how
to use it.
this makes learning fvwm difficult.

When you start Fvwm with no configuration file,
press F1. A menu should appear. You will find 2 Setup options.
Pick the one you like.

This creates a simple, commented starter configuration
that will get you going.

[Jason Timrod]

Post by d***@verizon.net
When you start Fvwm with no configuration file,
press F1.  A menu should appear.  You will find 2
Setup options.
Pick the one you like.
This creates a simple, commented starter configuration
that will get you going.

This is really ugly tho! :) Pink and more pink, yuck. It's difficult to learn from something which looks like crap - no offense. Maybe i should use fvwm-themes or fvwm-crystal, but i wouldn't learn anthing from those.

i want something step-by-step - documentation that's maintained and not out of date. i am just surprised no one has done this yet for such an old project - and if they do, I will help with it when I learn something about fvwm. :)

Thanks Dan,

Jason

[d***@verizon.net]

Post by d***@verizon.net
When you start Fvwm with no configuration file,
press F1.  A menu should appear.  You will find 2
Setup options.
Pick the one you like.
This creates a simple, commented starter configuration
that will get you going.

This is really ugly tho! :) Pink and more pink, yuck. It's difficult
to learn from something which looks like crap - no offense. Maybe i
should use fvwm-themes or fvwm-crystal, but i wouldn't learn anthing
from those.

Which option did you choose?

I don't like pink either.

i want something step-by-step - documentation that's maintained and
not out of date. i am just surprised no one has done this yet for such
an old project - and if they do, I will help with it when I learn
something about fvwm. :)

To configure fvwm you must edit a configuration file.
The comments in the starting configuration file should guide you.

For example, search for the offending pink color and change it to a
shade of blue. Maybe, my favorite, cornflowerblue.

[Jason Timrod]

Post by d***@verizon.net
To configure fvwm you must edit a configuration file.
The comments in the starting configuration file should
guide you.
For example, search for the offending pink color and change
it to a
shade of blue.  Maybe, my favorite, cornflowerblue.

Yes, thanks. I can see how to do this.

I appreciate what you're asking of me, Dan, but I don't want to lose sight of what my original question is - of documentation.

Also, if this default theme is tied to this, even a little bit, why does it still look like its from 1994?

Thanks

Jason

[d***@verizon.net]

Post by Jason Timrod

Post by d***@verizon.net
To configure fvwm you must edit a configuration file.
The comments in the starting configuration file should
guide you.
For example, search for the offending pink color and change
it to a
shade of blue.  Maybe, my favorite, cornflowerblue.

Yes, thanks. I can see how to do this.
I appreciate what you're asking of me, Dan, but I don't want to lose
sight of what my original question is - of documentation.

The man page is large because fvwm is large.

Post by Jason Timrod
Also, if this default theme is tied to this, even a little bit, why
does it still look like its from 1994?

Yes it does look like Motif.

I just committed a change to fix the color.
I'm willing to make more changes but I need suggestions.

I feel my own personal configuration wouldn't be widely
appreciated:

Loading Image...

[Thomas Adam]

Post by d***@verizon.net
I'm willing to make more changes but I need suggestions.

Not now, please. Seriously. Go back a few years, Dan, to a thread myself
and Nick Fortune started for just this sort of proposal. It's a lot more
difficult to do than just changing the colours (although I agree, anything
other than pink is an improvement.)

-- Thomas Adam

[d***@verizon.net]

Post by Thomas Adam

Post by d***@verizon.net
I'm willing to make more changes but I need suggestions.

Not now, please. Seriously. Go back a few years, Dan, to a thread myself
and Nick Fortune started for just this sort of proposal. It's a lot more
difficult to do than just changing the colours (although I agree, anything
other than pink is an improvement.)

I don't mean to make any kind of change that involves anything other
than a setting.

I remember the conversations well.

Go back even further and you'll find the thread that lead to creation
of ConfigFvwmSetup.
But even then, the content of that file was almost a straight copy from
the sample.fvwmrc directory.

The follow-on to that was Fvwm Themes.

I made a proposal for a lighter fvwm themes but it was turned down.

That times roman font is ugly too.

[Thomas Adam]

Post by d***@verizon.net
I made a proposal for a lighter fvwm themes but it was turned down.

I can't say that's surprising -- I bet it was a good idea as well which is
probably why it got turned down.

Post by d***@verizon.net
That times roman font is ugly too.

Nah. Confer:

Style * Font 6x10

;)

-- Thomas Adam

[d***@verizon.net]

Post by Thomas Adam

Post by d***@verizon.net
I made a proposal for a lighter fvwm themes but it was turned down.

I can't say that's surprising -- I bet it was a good idea as well which is
probably why it got turned down.

I wouldn't go that far.
All the developers past and present are very smart.
I never went for FvwmThemes myself, it loads way too much stuff.

Looking around, it looks like what I actually did was check in
2 decors and a switcher as part of sample.fvwmrc. See
decor_examples, DecorMwm, and DecorWin95.

The basic idea is that each decor file sets a decor and defines
a function that removes the decor.

As I remember, the complaint was that it was too primitive.
I can't argue with that. But I use it and provide it to a group
of users at work with no complaints.

Post by Thomas Adam

Post by d***@verizon.net
That times roman font is ugly too.

Style * Font 6x10
;)

Actually, I use 9x15bold, so I like the appearance but I need something
larger and more visible.

[Thomas Adam]

Post by Jason Timrod
This is really ugly tho! :) Pink and more pink, yuck. It's difficult to
learn from something which looks like crap - no offense. Maybe i should
use fvwm-themes or fvwm-crystal, but i wouldn't learn anthing from those.

Seemingly they've now been changed to blue. How wonderful.

But seriously, what is it you're actually wanting?

-- Thomas Adam

[d***@verizon.net]

Post by Thomas Adam

Post by Jason Timrod
This is really ugly tho! :) Pink and more pink, yuck. It's difficult to
learn from something which looks like crap - no offense. Maybe i should
use fvwm-themes or fvwm-crystal, but i wouldn't learn anthing from those.

Seemingly they've now been changed to blue. How wonderful.

Blue is by far most people's favorite color.

Therefore, you like it, I like it, and EVERYONE else has to like it.

Seriously, I think that gray and maroon has remained the default for all these
years because we were sure no one liked it.

Feel free to change as you see fit.
Just not the old gray and maroon.

[Thomas Adam]

Post by d***@verizon.net
Seriously, I think that gray and maroon has remained the default for all these
years because we were sure no one liked it.

"Flowers of all hue, and without thorn the rose." -- Milton.

I think blue's a good choice.

Post by d***@verizon.net
Feel free to change as you see fit.
Just not the old gray and maroon.

I have no intention of changing at this juncture. Blue's fine.

Most distros which actually think this issue something worth changing
already ship some fvwm-themes config (Debian and others). SuSE have their
own, and BSD don't use a version of FVWM we even support anymore.

For everyone else, there's... well, now blue windows to contend with, until
we get round to changing it in a controlled manner. :)

-- Thomas Adam