FVWM: Recommend Config for Fluxbox user

[Tim Johnson]

Hello :

This is partly to test my assimilation into the fvwm mailing list,
and in part for a recommendation or recommendations.

I have installed fvwm 3.2.7 on an 64-bit Ubuntu 14.04 machine (mac mini).

I am most used to fluxbox 1.3.5. My fluxbox config is pretty basic.

For me to get used to fvwm without too much fumbling about, I could
use a config file that might provide me with the most familiar
environment.

I see some examples at /usr/share/doc/fvwm/examples

Any other recommendations are welcome. I use emacs, so Control-Alt
prefixes to key bindings would have to be remapped, but I should be
able to handle such remapping.

TIA
--
Tim
http://www.akwebsoft.com, http://www.tj49.com

[Tim Johnson]

* Tim Johnson <***@akwebsoft.com> [160620 16:48]:
> Hello :
>
> This is partly to test my assimilation into the fvwm mailing list,
> and in part for a recommendation or recommendations.
>
> I have installed fvwm 3.2.7 on an 64-bit Ubuntu 14.04 machine (mac mini).

Please note, from a personal reply, I was told, that 2.6.6 is the
latest version.

I got the string "3.2.6" from ~/.fvwm/Version

fvwm --version returns
fvwm 2.6.5 compiled on Nov 14 2013 at 23:12:38
(installed from Ubuntu Synaptic)

Sorry about the mixup. On my system, .fvwm is created on the first
invocation and file Version is contain in that directory.

For those unfamiliar with fluxbox, I could just use some config
that enables easy access to window menus. With the vanilla config,
I couldn't even find a way to close a window (other than
terminating the child app).

From
man fvwm
I read the following:
############################################################
BUILTIN KEY AND MOUSE BINDINGS
The following commands are built-in to fvwm:

Key Help R A Popup MenuFvwmRoot
Key F1 R A Popup MenuFvwmRoot
Key Tab A M WindowList Root c c NoDeskSort
Key Escape A MC EscapeFunc
Mouse 1 R A Menu MenuFvwmRoot
Mouse 1 T A FuncFvwmRaiseLowerX Move
Mouse 1 FS A FuncFvwmRaiseLowerX Resize
Mouse 2 FST A FuncFvwmRaiseLowerX Move
AddToFunc FuncFvwmRaiseLowerX
+ I Raise
+ M $0
+ D Lower
############################################################

But, from that I was not even able to grok how to close a window. Or get a
window menu.

To reiterate, on Ubuntu 14.04, version 2.6.5
--
Tim
http://www.akwebsoft.com, http://www.tj49.com

[Thomas Funk]

"Tim Johnson" <***@akwebsoft.com> wrote:
> Sorry about the mixup. On my system, .fvwm is created on the first
> invocation and file Version is contain in that directory.
>
> For those unfamiliar with fluxbox, I could just use some config
> that enables easy access to window menus. With the vanilla config,
> I couldn't even find a way to close a window (other than
> terminating the child app).

Up to Fvwm version 2.6.6 you could use the "Setup Form" in the Builtin
Menu (single left click anywhere on the desktop). A good starting
configuration is
- FvwmIconMan
- FvwmPager
- FvwmTaskBar

or

- FvwmButtons

Mark them, click "Copy ...", "Restart ..." and you have it.
>
> But, from that I was not even able to grok how to close a window. Or get a
> window menu.

After a Fvwm restart the windows have now some buttons:
left: a minus => shows a window menu
right: a dot => minimize and a square => maximize

Hope this helps.

Another possibility is to install Fvwm-Crystal or Fvwm-Nightshade to
get a full featured configuration of Fvwm.

-- Thomas --

[Tim Johnson]

* Thomas Funk <***@web.de> [160621 01:07]:
> "Tim Johnson" <***@akwebsoft.com> wrote:
> > Sorry about the mixup. On my system, .fvwm is created on the first
> > invocation and file Version is contain in that directory.
> >
> > For those unfamiliar with fluxbox, I could just use some config
> > that enables easy access to window menus. With the vanilla config,
> > I couldn't even find a way to close a window (other than
> > terminating the child app).
>
> Up to Fvwm version 2.6.6 you could use the "Setup Form" in the Builtin
> Menu (single left click anywhere on the desktop). A good starting
> configuration is
> - FvwmIconMan
> - FvwmPager
> - FvwmTaskBar
>
> or
>
> - FvwmButtons
>
> Mark them, click "Copy ...", "Restart ..." and you have it.
> >
> > But, from that I was not even able to grok how to close a window. Or get a
> > window menu.
>
> After a Fvwm restart the windows have now some buttons:
> left: a minus => shows a window menu
> right: a dot => minimize and a square => maximize
>
> Hope this helps.
Thank you Thomas.
I know this will help. I'll get to it shortly.
regards
--
Tim
http://www.akwebsoft.com, http://www.tj49.com

[Tim Johnson]

* Tim Johnson <***@akwebsoft.com> [160621 07:30]:
<...> > Up to Fvwm version 2.6.6 you could use the "Setup Form" in the Builtin
> > Menu (single left click anywhere on the desktop). A good starting
> > configuration is
> > - FvwmIconMan
> > - FvwmPager
> > - FvwmTaskBar
> >
> > or
> >
> > - FvwmButtons
> >
> > Mark them, click "Copy ...", "Restart ..." and you have it.
> > >
> > > But, from that I was not even able to grok how to close a window. Or get a
> > > window menu.
> >
> > After a Fvwm restart the windows have now some buttons:
> > left: a minus => shows a window menu
> > right: a dot => minimize and a square => maximize
> >
> > Hope this helps.
That's what I needed. The essential bootstrap. I'm good to go..
thank you
--
Tim
http://www.akwebsoft.com, http://www.tj49.com

[lee]

"Thomas Funk" <***@web.de> writes:


> [...]
>
> Another possibility is to install Fvwm-Crystal or Fvwm-Nightshade to
> get a full featured configuration of Fvwm.

Fvwm-crystal is very overwhelming for someone starting out with
fvwm, and the same is probably true for nightshade.


If the OP wants to have something fully functional, they are good
choices; if he wants to learn how to configure fvwm himself,
fvwm-crystal might be easier to start with.

A configuration created with the hopes of being somewhat helpful for
users wanting to learn how to configure fvwm can be obtained like this:


git clone git://dawn.adminart.net/fvwm.git


It currently isn't up to date because I recently made some changes when
switching to another keyboard. It's working, though. If you'd like to
know when I make another commit, you can send me an email and I'll let
you know.


--
After using i3 for a while, I totally realized that it is the job of
the window manger to mange the windows, literally. It is, by all
means, /not/ the job of the user. Once you realized this, you can see
the irony of calling an operating system "Windows", and you even have
to say they did a good job with that.

[Brian]

On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 15:38:56 +0100
Thomas Adam <***@fvwm.org> wrote:

> On 24 June 2016 at 01:23, lee <***@yagibdah.de> wrote:
> > A configuration created with the hopes of being somewhat helpful for
> > users wanting to learn how to configure fvwm can be obtained like
> > this:
...
> As for fvwm-{nightshade,crystal} they're the best of a bunch of YASFCF
> (Yet Another Sodding FVWM Configuration Framework) from which we're
> all supposed to learn something, it seems. Because what we need is
> yet more choice...
>
> -- Thomas Adam
>

Thomas it is so great to see you corresponding again.
As for nightshade and crystal, don't they both have dependencies beyond
what FVWM normally has packaged? On my Slackware system, I have
tried both and while Crystal was usable, nightshade totally failed.
FVWM with proper configuration can stand by itself, without all the
add-ons. So I'm hoping the 2.6.6 FVWM (soon to be available in
my Slackware upgrade to 14.2) will have the newest configuration
program. Cheers, BrianA_MN

[Thomas Funk]

Hi Brian,

On 06/25/2016 07:47 PM, Brian wrote:
> As for nightshade and crystal, don't they both have dependencies beyond
> what FVWM normally has packaged? On my Slackware system, I have
> tried both and while Crystal was usable, nightshade totally failed.

Purely out of curiosity I'd like to know what was totally failed and
which version of Fvwm-Nightshade you've tested?

I know that FNS 0.6.9 works under Slackware64-14.1 but the biggest
problem with this distribution is that required packages needed for
proper work are not available under original Slackware like

pyxdg - for application menu building
conky - for cpu and clock
stalonetray - for system tray

Only found them under SlackBuilds.org.

For the upcoming 0.8 it's much more difficult because perl-gtk2 is
missing which is used for all FNS GUIs.

But anyway thanks for trying it :-)

-- Thomas --

--
--
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." -- Albert Einstein

[Brian]

On Sat, 25 Jun 2016 21:03:33 +0200
Thomas Funk <***@web.de> wrote:

> Hi Brian,
>
> On 06/25/2016 07:47 PM, Brian wrote:
> > As for nightshade and crystal, don't they both have dependencies
> > beyond what FVWM normally has packaged? On my Slackware system, I
> > have tried both and while Crystal was usable, nightshade totally
> > failed.
>
> Purely out of curiosity I'd like to know what was totally failed and
> which version of Fvwm-Nightshade you've tested?
>
> I know that FNS 0.6.9 works under Slackware64-14.1 but the biggest
> problem with this distribution is that required packages needed for
> proper work are not available under original Slackware like
>
> pyxdg - for application menu building
> conky - for cpu and clock
> stalonetray - for system tray
>
> Only found them under SlackBuilds.org.
>
> For the upcoming 0.8 it's much more difficult because perl-gtk2 is
> missing which is used for all FNS GUIs.
>
> But anyway thanks for trying it :-)
>
> -- Thomas --
>
Thomas, I'm sorry to say that it's been a year since I tried
Nightshade, I'm not even sure which version at the time. I do remember
trying to build the necessary dependencies from SlackBuilds.org. There
was a optional package which wasn't available in the SBo but I
installed without that option. What I remember was config didn't know
how to handle my two monitors of different sizes. I believe at the time
I thought it might be a Xinemera issue, but crystal was perfectly
happy to handle both monitors from the default config. I see perl-gtk2
1.2495 in the SBo, so it shouldn't be hard to install that dep. Good
luck with your continued development. Is nightshade still installing
in it's own directory folders? I know crystal is still using its own,
as the old FVWM-Themes will also. Actually I really like themes, but
trying to customize the menus with XDG integration simply failed. The
XDG menu integration is one thing I liked about crystal. I've since
converted to WindowMaker as my preferred window manager. It is small
on resources, fast, EWMH compliant, and handles my two monitors with
multiple desktops, with XDG menu integration through a trick I found
on the WM forum. The only thing I miss is a right-click allowing me to
move applications to other virtual desktops with a click, instead I
have to drag them to the right or left edge. I'm following the FVWM
forums because I still see awesome potential that WMaker might fail in
the future.

[Thomas Funk]

On 06/26/2016 12:00 AM, Brian wrote:
> Thomas, I'm sorry to say that it's been a year since I tried
> Nightshade, I'm not even sure which version at the time. I do remember
> trying to build the necessary dependencies from SlackBuilds.org. There
> was a optional package which wasn't available in the SBo but I
> installed without that option. What I remember was config didn't know
> how to handle my two monitors of different sizes. I believe at the time
> I thought it might be a Xinemera issue, but crystal was perfectly
> happy to handle both monitors from the default config.

The 0.6.x version hasn't multi monitor support. Also the upcoming 0.8.

I'm working on it but it isn't finished yet. Probably available in 1.0 ...

> I see perl-gtk2
> 1.2495 in the SBo, so it shouldn't be hard to install that dep. Good
> luck with your continued development. Is nightshade still installing
> in it's own directory folders? I know crystal is still using its own,
> as the old FVWM-Themes will also.

Yes :-)

> Actually I really like themes, but
> trying to customize the menus with XDG integration simply failed. The
> XDG menu integration is one thing I liked about crystal.

The XDG menu integration is available in Fvwm since 2.6.6. You can use
it if you replace fvwm-menu-desktop in 2.6.5 with that one from 2.6.6.
You need also the new man page and fvwm-menu-desktop-config.fpl which
should placed in /usr/share/fvwm/. Read the new man page how to integrate
it into the root menu.

> I've since
> converted to WindowMaker as my preferred window manager. It is small
> on resources, fast, EWMH compliant, and handles my two monitors with
> multiple desktops, with XDG menu integration through a trick I found
> on the WM forum. The only thing I miss is a right-click allowing me to
> move applications to other virtual desktops with a click, instead I
> have to drag them to the right or left edge. I'm following the FVWM
> forums because I still see awesome potential that WMaker might fail in
> the future.

Yeah, Fvwm rocks! ^^

Cheers,
Thomas


--
--
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." -- Albert Einstein

[Tim Johnson]

* Thomas Adam <***@fvwm.org> [160625 06:41]:
> On 24 June 2016 at 01:23, lee <***@yagibdah.de> wrote:
> > A configuration created with the hopes of being somewhat helpful for
> > users wanting to learn how to configure fvwm can be obtained like this:
>
> Be careful with that intention, not matter how we meaning it is.
<...>
I got ("git'ed") git://dawn.adminart.net/fvwm.git for reasons of
possible edification, however Thomas Funk's recommendation of "Setup
Form" was just what I needed. It gave me a basic, sane beginning,
and keywords for searches.

Being a homestead kind of person, having a window manager that I can
design from the ground up is right up my alley.

Quoting T. Funk: "Up to Fvwm version 2.6.6 you could use the "Setup
Form" in the Builtin Menu" et. al.

Do I take that to mean that Setup Form has been discarded after
later versions? If so, replaced at all?

thanks
--
Tim
http://www.akwebsoft.com, http://www.tj49.com