Discussion:
FVWM: Want an alt-tab behaviour like KDE3
Michael Großer
2012-01-18 21:31:25 UTC
Permalink
I want an alt-tab behaviour like KDE3:

1st) When I press <Alt>+<Tab>, I want a window list that does not move the
mouse pointer. The mouse pointer is supposed to stay where it is.

2nd) I want to be able to select a window by pressing <Alt>+<Tab> (forward)
and <Shift>+<Alt>+<Tab> (backward). When I press (<Shift>+)<Alt>+<Tab>
with one hand and move the mouse with the other hand, then the mouse
must not interfere with my keyboard action (selecting a window using
(<Shift>+)<Alt>+<Tab>).

3rd) When I press <Alt>+<Tab>, I optically want to see the windows in this
list in the order in which they were recently focused, like WindowList
already does. But: I want the second entry of the list to be selected
when I open the list with Alt-Tab.

The "CurrentAtEnd" option has the disadvantage that I do not optically see what
I should see (or want to see). It disturbs my perception, because sometimes I
*LOOK* onto the list if I'm searching for something that I do not get at one go.
I have the right order in my mind, but the list shows me something different
when I use the "CurrentAtEnd" option.

It would be a great thing if FVWM were able to fulfill these requirements.
But I'm not sure how could be the right approach to achieve this:

- Make feature requests about creating new options for "WindowList"?

- There should be an option like "preselectItem n", where I could
set "n" to "2" to get a better solution than the "CurrentAtEnd"
option.

- There should be a "dontmovemouse" option to get a behaviour
described under 1st).

- There should be an "ignoremousemovement" option to get a behaviour
described under 2nd).

- Try to reverse engineer the Alt-Tab behaviour using FvwmIconMan?

- Trouble is that I need to combine the "Key actions" of FvwmIconMan
with the "FollowWindowList" option of "FvwmWinList" to get a list
that does not move the mouse, that ignores mouse movement and that
selects the second list entry (by using gotobutton or something like
that)

The bottleneck of my FvwmIconMan approach seems the be able to get a
FollowWindowList behaviour. Does anyone have an idea how to get
such a behaviour? If this means that I have to write a complicated
algorithm then I would do this, but I need a good idea how to start
this way.

How likely is it that somebody enhances "WindowList" with the three
options I described above?

Does anyone has an idea if there could be a better way than my
FvwmIconMan approach?

At first glance, I see these modules:
- WindowList
- FvwmIconMan
- FvwmWinList
- FvwmWindowMenu

Are there more like them that could be worth of thinking about using
or abusing them?

Any ideas are welcome.
Thanks in advance
Michael
Thomas Adam
2012-01-19 09:27:40 UTC
Permalink
Great.

[...]
Post by Michael Großer
- WindowList
- FvwmIconMan
- FvwmWinList
- FvwmWindowMenu
Are there more like them that could be worth of thinking about using
or abusing them?
Absolutely not.

What you're asking for is so specific it would have to be its own module.

-- Thomas Adam
Jason Weber
2012-01-19 17:54:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Adam
Great.
[...]
Post by Michael Großer
- WindowList
- FvwmIconMan
- FvwmWinList
- FvwmWindowMenu
Are there more like them that could be worth of thinking about using
or abusing them?
Absolutely not.
What you're asking for is so specific it would have to be its own module.
-- Thomas Adam
Michael,

Perhaps if you are open minded to tools that might be more effective
at navigating
windows than KDE or others do, I would also suggest taking a look at the
FvwmProxy. It is a bit of a departure from the uncorrelated
box-in-the-middle paradigm.
It can handle your (1) and (2), but for (3), the tab order is
generally spatial, not historical.
For me, this is far more intuitive, but I can not assert that the same
would be true for anyone else.

-- Jason Weber
Harry portobello
2012-01-20 20:41:41 UTC
Permalink
hi,
Post by Jason Weber
Perhaps if you are open minded to tools that might be more effective
at navigating
windows than KDE or others do, I would also suggest taking a look at the
FvwmProxy.  It is a bit of a departure from the uncorrelated
box-in-the-middle paradigm.
It can handle your (1) and (2), but for (3), the tab order is
generally spatial, not historical.
For me, this is far more intuitive, but I can not assert that the same
would be true for anyone else.
would you mind giving an overview of how you use fvwmproxy? ive read
the man page but its not clear other than how to get it show the proxy
windows how you could use as an effective alt-tab replacement...

im sure ive seen people use it as a fvwmtabs replacement? is that possible?

Harry
Michael Großer
2012-01-20 21:07:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jason Weber
Post by Thomas Adam
Great.
[...]
Post by Michael Großer
- WindowList
- FvwmIconMan
- FvwmWinList
- FvwmWindowMenu
Are there more like them that could be worth of thinking about using
or abusing them?
Absolutely not.
What you're asking for is so specific it would have to be its own module.
-- Thomas Adam
Michael,
Perhaps if you are open minded to tools that might be more effective
at navigating
windows than KDE or others do, I would also suggest taking a look at the
FvwmProxy. It is a bit of a departure from the uncorrelated
box-in-the-middle paradigm.
It can handle your (1) and (2), but for (3), the tab order is
generally spatial, not historical.
For me, this is far more intuitive, but I can not assert that the same
would be true for anyone else.
-- Jason Weber
You extended my collection of options. Thank you for that!

I don't know if I want a spatial approach when I use Alt-Tab
(or Win-Tab). Probably not, because I already use a spatial approach
by using 12*12*3 = 432 viewports (pages, desktops - call it how you
want).

Usually, I have few windows on one page. Mostly one or two.
Sometimes three. When I go somewhere more deeply into detail
than planned, then a page can contain considerably more windows.
Some windows can contain some or a lot of tabs if they are
web-browser windows. In the cases when a page has more (or
considerably more) than one window, I prefer a historical
approach.

But, I will inspect FvwmProxy during the next years, because
the concept looks interesting. Perhaps I could use it
for an unknown purpose when I gathered experiences with it.

Today I digged out an old idea from
Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:00:54 -0800
from Piotr Zielinski to get an FvwmIconMan when I press Win+Tab
and kill it when I release the Win key:
http://www.mail-archive.com/***@hpc.uh.edu/msg06089.html

The chances increase that I indeed could get an KDE3 behaviour
during the next days.


- Michael -
Jason Weber
2012-01-21 00:23:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Großer
Post by Jason Weber
Post by Thomas Adam
Great.
[...]
Post by Michael Großer
- WindowList
- FvwmIconMan
- FvwmWinList
- FvwmWindowMenu
Are there more like them that could be worth of thinking about using
or abusing them?
Absolutely not.
What you're asking for is so specific it would have to be its own module.
-- Thomas Adam
Michael,
Perhaps if you are open minded to tools that might be more effective
at navigating
windows than KDE or others do, I would also suggest taking a look at the
FvwmProxy.  It is a bit of a departure from the uncorrelated
box-in-the-middle paradigm.
It can handle your (1) and (2), but for (3), the tab order is
generally spatial, not historical.
For me, this is far more intuitive, but I can not assert that the same
would be true for anyone else.
-- Jason Weber
You extended my collection of options. Thank you for that!
I don't know if I want a spatial approach when I use Alt-Tab
(or Win-Tab). Probably not, because I already use a spatial approach
by using 12*12*3 = 432 viewports (pages, desktops - call it how you
want).
Usually, I have few windows on one page. Mostly one or two.
Sometimes three. When I go somewhere more deeply into detail
than planned, then a page can contain considerably more windows.
Some windows can contain some or a lot of tabs if they are
web-browser windows. In the cases when a page has more (or
considerably more) than one window, I prefer a historical
approach.
But, I will inspect FvwmProxy during the next years, because
the concept looks interesting. Perhaps I could use it
for an unknown purpose when I gathered experiences with it.
Today I digged out an old idea from
Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:00:54 -0800
from Piotr Zielinski to get an FvwmIconMan when I press Win+Tab
The chances increase that I indeed could get an KDE3 behaviour
during the next days.
- Michael -
You can see illustrated examples of specific features of FvwmProxy at

http://www.munra.com/fvwm/fvwmproxy.html

If you have a 400x virtual desktop area, perhaps you never
need to worry about windows overlapping, but I would be
lost in all that space. I couldn't stand any sliding screen edges and
just stick to dancing between 6-10 desks with quick-switch key bindings.
I could continue on about where I've gone, but the link above
might clarify my approach.

I follow your logic of the historical approach and suspect that
it would have real advantage over an arbitrarily ordered list.
But with how well a solid tightly-correlated spatial approach has
served me, I don't think historical data would improve my navigation.
It would introduce dependencies on state that is longer true
versus giving me an optimized view of everything in current state..

-- Jason Weber

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