FVWM: "Stepping down" from next year.

[Thomas Adam]

Hello all,

This is a very quick note to let you all know that as of next year I will be
stepping down as the maintainer of FVWM -- largely this role is a very loose
one, but since I seem to be the most vocal and more visibally active
developer here, I felt it wise to mention this just in case people wonder
where I've gone.

I do not have the time anymore to devote to this project. As such, I will
still be providing ad-hoc bug-fixes, and general advice, but that's about
all. I will not be working on any major features.

My last batch of work on this will be to complete module deprecation, even
if that's stub code. Dominik Vogt and I are completing work on the Git
conversion still, which I am pleased about.

These will be done by early next year. As soon as that happens, I shall
release FVWM 2.6.4 -- after that, well, that's someone else's problem. :)

Thanks all. It's been fun. :)

-- Thomas Adam

[Kathryn Andersen]

Post by Thomas Adam
I do not have the time anymore to devote to this project. As such, I will
still be providing ad-hoc bug-fixes, and general advice, but that's about
all. I will not be working on any major features.

Thank you Thomas, for all your hard and thorough work.
We'll miss you.

Post by Thomas Adam
My last batch of work on this will be to complete module deprecation, even
if that's stub code. Dominik Vogt and I are completing work on the Git
conversion still, which I am pleased about.

Hooray for Git! Let's hope that makes it easier for more people to
contribute.

K.A.

[Thomas Adam]

Post by Kathryn Andersen

Post by Thomas Adam
I do not have the time anymore to devote to this project. As such, I will
still be providing ad-hoc bug-fixes, and general advice, but that's about
all. I will not be working on any major features.

Thank you Thomas, for all your hard and thorough work.

My recent Move modifications to honour EwmhBaseStruts will make your
FvwmLayout module easier to work with -- remind me soon, I have patches for
it.

It would be nice if this was completely rewritten in C and submitted as a
replacement for FvwmRearrange, you know. The only thing you're missing is
per-screen EwmhBaseStrut settings, which I've patches for kicking about on
Github somewhere. I'll see if I can't make those more agreeable at some
point.

-- Thomas Adam

[Thomas Funk]

Hi Thomas,

Post by Thomas Adam
Hello all,
This is a very quick note to let you all know that as of next year I will be
stepping down as the maintainer of FVWM -- largely this role is a very loose
one, but since I seem to be the most vocal and more visibally active
developer here, I felt it wise to mention this just in case people wonder
where I've gone.

Its a very great pitty that you will step down your maintainer role :s
But I understand it ... the last time was not very beneficial for you at
many points ...

Post by Thomas Adam
I do not have the time anymore to devote to this project. As such, I will
still be providing ad-hoc bug-fixes, and general advice, but that's about
all. I will not be working on any major features.

What is/are your new focal point(s) whether you would say it?
Would you be in some cases a mentor to advocate new Fvwm developers?

Post by Thomas Adam
My last batch of work on this will be to complete module deprecation, even
if that's stub code. Dominik Vogt and I are completing work on the Git
conversion still, which I am pleased about.

Moving from CVS to GIT ... what should it deliver if Fvwm will go in a pure maintaining mode?

Post by Thomas Adam
These will be done by early next year. As soon as that happens, I shall
release FVWM 2.6.4 -- after that, well, that's someone else's problem. :)

Damned ... and what about Fvwm forum? Will you also stop working on that field, too?

Post by Thomas Adam
Thanks all. It's been fun. :)

No, it's not funny ... it's a tragedy ... Fvwm will loose a big part of it's heart ;(

What about the other developers? Dominik, Dan, Jason, ... ? Will the project vanish into thin air?
I can't believe it ...

Thomas aka TF

[d***@verizon.net]

Post by Thomas Funk

Post by Thomas Adam
Thanks all. It's been fun. :)

No, it's not funny ... it's a tragedy ... Fvwm will loose a big part of it's heart ;(
What about the other developers? Dominik, Dan, Jason, ... ? Will the project vanish into thin air?
I can't believe it ...

Years ago we decided that "fvwm workers" would run the project.
For a long time we had 4 or 5 people committing changes every few days.
Since then it's been more of a one person at a time situation.

Having a single maintainer is too much of a burden. I've always been
surprised that anyone would take on that role.

If someone comes to this list with a great new idea and convinces the
few of us that hang around that he's qualified he'll get commit
privileges and Fvwm get new capabilities.

It's pretty hard to work up any ambition when Fvwm already does
everything a person wants. (It does for me.)

Hopefully we have the mechanisms in place for this project to carry
on to serve that niche of users that want total control and don't need
GUI's to write configuration files.

[Thomas Adam]

Post by Thomas Funk
Would you be in some cases a mentor to advocate new Fvwm developers?

Yes, I can do that.

Post by Thomas Funk

Post by Thomas Adam
My last batch of work on this will be to complete module deprecation, even
if that's stub code. Dominik Vogt and I are completing work on the Git
conversion still, which I am pleased about.

Moving from CVS to GIT ... what should it deliver if Fvwm will go in a pure maintaining mode?

A much less hair-pulling environment to work in, for a start.

Post by Thomas Funk

Post by Thomas Adam
These will be done by early next year. As soon as that happens, I shall
release FVWM 2.6.4 -- after that, well, that's someone else's problem. :)

Damned ... and what about Fvwm forum? Will you also stop working on that field, too?

No, this and the wiki will still be run by me unless someone wishes to step
in and actually do a proper job of both. They're both low maintenance
though.

-- Thomas Adam

[d***@verizon.net]

Post by Thomas Adam
Hello all,
This is a very quick note to let you all know that as of next year I will be
stepping down as the maintainer of FVWM -- largely this role is a very loose
one, but since I seem to be the most vocal and more visibally active
developer here, I felt it wise to mention this just in case people wonder
where I've gone.
I do not have the time anymore to devote to this project. As such, I will
still be providing ad-hoc bug-fixes, and general advice, but that's about
all. I will not be working on any major features.
My last batch of work on this will be to complete module deprecation, even
if that's stub code. Dominik Vogt and I are completing work on the Git
conversion still, which I am pleased about.
These will be done by early next year. As soon as that happens, I shall
release FVWM 2.6.4 -- after that, well, that's someone else's problem. :)
Thanks all. It's been fun. :)

This is a thankless job and you are far from the first person to feel
burnt out. (I'm guessing.)

For my purposes, Fvwm was feature complete after the iconboxes, left
menus and window minimizing animation made their appearance.

I hope that we'll always have enough interested users to at least keep what's
currently working up to date.

Thanks for all your efforts.

[Thomas Funk]

Von: ***@verizon.net
Gesendet: 07.11.2011 23:24:00

Having a single maintainer is too much of a burden. I've always been
surprised that anyone would take on that role.

Yes, that's probably true. I think Thomas is at the end of his power.
The permanent attacks against him the last time weren't very cooperative at all ...

If someone comes to this list with a great new idea and convinces the
few of us that hang around that he's qualified he'll get commit
privileges and Fvwm get new capabilities.

A great new idea ... there are many ideas but for these ideas we need people
who are willing to show them with config examples and accept constructive reviews.
We need also a good default config for new users to show what is possible with Fvwm.
We started months ago with them. I created a config based on that ideas but it must
be tested and need feedback from the community.

It's pretty hard to work up any ambition when Fvwm already does
everything a person wants. (It does for me.)

For me too, but we need more than comments what is bad and should change ...

Hopefully we have the mechanisms in place for this project to carry
on to serve that niche of users that want total control and don't need
GUI's to write configuration files.

Thomas started with his wiki for that but it should extend to get a rich pool of information
around of Fvwm.

Thomas

[John Latham]

Post by Thomas Funk

Having a single maintainer is too much of a burden. I've always been
surprised that anyone would take on that role.

Yes, that's probably true. I think Thomas is at the end of his power.
The permanent attacks against him the last time weren't very cooperative at all ...

Wait a moment: surely Thomas' decision isn't influenced by a few (one?), at
best, misguided individuals' attempts to, at best, help in a bad way?

Thomas: please reassure us this is the case?!
(Or let us protect you from such trivial undermining so you can carry on!)

In fact, if we all call ``encore'' -- would you stay a little longer? ;-)

[Thomas Adam]

Post by John Latham

Post by Thomas Funk

Having a single maintainer is too much of a burden. I've always been
surprised that anyone would take on that role.

Yes, that's probably true. I think Thomas is at the end of his power.
The permanent attacks against him the last time weren't very cooperative at all ...

Wait a moment: surely Thomas' decision isn't influenced by a few (one?), at
best, misguided individuals' attempts to, at best, help in a bad way?
Thomas: please reassure us this is the case?!

Nope, nothing like that. I simply do not have the time anymore.

-- Thomas Adam

[source liu]

Post by Thomas Adam
Hello all,
This is a very quick note to let you all know that as of next year I will be
stepping down as the maintainer of FVWM -- largely this role is a very loose
one, but since I seem to be the most vocal and more visibally active
developer here, I felt it wise to mention this just in case people wonder
where I've gone.

as a beginner, i had learnt from you a lot in a few days after i came here.
the only thing i could do is to express my deepest thanks. and a best wish.

[Bert Geens]

Hello Thomas,

Post by Thomas Adam
Hello all,
This is a very quick note to let you all know that as of next year I will be
stepping down as the maintainer of FVWM -- largely this role is a very loose
one, but since I seem to be the most vocal and more visibally active
developer here, I felt it wise to mention this just in case people wonder
where I've gone.
I do not have the time anymore to devote to this project. As such, I will
still be providing ad-hoc bug-fixes, and general advice, but that's about
all. I will not be working on any major features.
My last batch of work on this will be to complete module deprecation, even
if that's stub code. Dominik Vogt and I are completing work on the Git
conversion still, which I am pleased about.

Am I correct in assuming that the idea of an FvwmSocket style module is
sort of dead in the water now?

Post by Thomas Adam
These will be done by early next year. As soon as that happens, I shall
release FVWM 2.6.4 -- after that, well, that's someone else's problem. :)
Thanks all. It's been fun. :)

Thanks to you Thomas, you got a *lot* done in a very short timespan,
it's a real shame to see you step down, but I hope you'll still have
some time to devote to Fvwm albeit at a more leisurly (sp?) pace than
the one you've kept up so far.

Kind regards,

Bert Geens

[Thomas Adam]

Post by Bert Geens
Am I correct in assuming that the idea of an FvwmSocket style module is
sort of dead in the water now?

No, I'll be completing that as well as deprecating the other modules. It
will be someone else's problem as to when/how that's pushed out to users in
such a way that things don't break. All I am guaranteeing is that the code
for it will be present.

-- Thomas Adam

[Harry portobello]

Hullo,

Post by Thomas Adam
Hello all,
This is a very quick note to let you all know that as of next year I will be
stepping down as the maintainer of FVWM -- largely this role is a very loose
one, but since I seem to be the most vocal and more visibally active
developer here, I felt it wise to mention this just in case people wonder
where I've gone.

what will happen to fvwm when you do? are you the only person doing it now?

would i be able for commit rights for this? I am hoping to reimplement
some features you've removed.

Thanks for your efforts - why are you stepping down?

Harry

[Thomas Adam]

Post by Harry portobello
what will happen to fvwm when you do? are you the only person doing it now?

I do not know, but it will still exist. I am not the be-all-and-end-all of
FVWM, by the way. That's really important you understand that last point.

Post by Harry portobello
would i be able for commit rights for this? I am hoping to reimplement
some features you've removed.

For as long as I still have commit privs, I will never vouch you get them.
Sorry, but you've demonstrated a fundamental lack of competence which makes
me very uneasy giving you any level of access.

If you care that much (despite my FvwmEvent suggestion from before), fork
FVWM, call it HVWM or something, and have a blast [1]. Good luck getting
any users to move away from FVWM though.

-- Thomas Adam

[1] Considering I went to efforts to further explain how it worked to you,
I am surprised you can't just *use* it.

[Harry portobello]

Hullo,

Post by Harry portobello
what will happen to fvwm when you do? are you the only person doing it now?

I do not know, but it will still exist.  I am not the be-all-and-end-all of
FVWM, by the way.  That's really important you understand that last point.

I do but I see the downside to it. You've been the leading dev for
years, so you leaving still has an impact. This is bad, for this
project when there's no one left to contribute. If thats not you, who
is it?

Post by Harry portobello
would i be able for commit rights for this? I am hoping to reimplement
some features you've removed.

For as long as I still have commit privs, I will never vouch you get them.
Sorry, but you've demonstrated a fundamental lack of competence which makes
me very uneasy giving you any level of access.

This is insulting. Why not? I sent through a patch to fix the %t
problem already and you didn't comment.

If you care that much (despite my FvwmEvent suggestion from before), fork
FVWM, call it HVWM or something, and have a blast [1].  Good luck getting
any users to move away from FVWM though.

Youre being imature now.

Perhaps it is best you leave then - youve done nothing but block
peoples attempts at contributing - no wonder youve given up. Did you
stop to think that maybe you were the cause for the lack of activity
and you leaving is a good thing to fvwm?

Harry

[John Latham]

Post by Harry portobello
Youre being imature now.
Perhaps it is best you leave then - youve done nothing but block
peoples attempts at contributing - no wonder youve given up. Did you
stop to think that maybe you were the cause for the lack of activity
and you leaving is a good thing to fvwm?

Harry: Thomas has contributed enormously, no, awesomely, to fvwm, code and
support, for many, many years. This is not ``nothing''. By contrast, your
`contribution' has seemed like a systematic attempt to be destructive. And
yet, Thomas has risen above that, and tried to help and support even you.

I know which of you *appears* immature.

[Emmanuel Seyman]

Post by Harry portobello
Did you
stop to think that maybe you were the cause for the lack of activity
and you leaving is a good thing to fvwm?

In cases like the one you've described (the main developer holding back the
community), the project tends to be forked and the community adopts the fork.
To my knowledge, this hasn't happened to FVWM.

Emmanuel

[Michael Großer]

Post by Emmanuel Seyman

Post by Harry portobello
Did you
stop to think that maybe you were the cause for the lack of activity
and you leaving is a good thing to fvwm?

In cases like the one you've described (the main developer holding back the
community), the project tends to be forked and the community adopts the fork.
To my knowledge, this hasn't happened to FVWM.
Emmanuel

The FVWM community indeed does a thing that I initially advised
Harry Portobello to do: To explain.

Thanks for this! I learn a lot about the rules of the open
source movement. I'm sure, I'm not the only one who is
understanding concepts such as this one that Emmanuel Seyman
explained with this contribution just by reading these threads.

Some not so good things like Harry, showing that he constantly
has to to put a question mark over everything that he is surrounded
with, because maybe he still doesn't have found the right strategy
to manage his live, such kind of not so good things sometimes
have a positive flipside: We all learn a lot :-)

Michael

[Chris Siebenmann]

Harry portobello:
| >> would i be able for commit rights for this? I am hoping to reimplement
| >> some features you've removed.
| >
| > For as long as I still have commit privs, I will never vouch you get
| > them. Sorry, but you've demonstrated a fundamental lack of competence
| > which makes me very uneasy giving you any level of access.
|
| This is insulting. Why not? I sent through a patch to fix the %t
| problem already and you didn't comment.

I will observe that saying 'please give me commit access so that I
can fix your horrible design mistakes' is generally not going to be
an effective approach to actually getting commit access. The current
developers generally made the decisions that they did precisely because
they feel that those decisions are *good* design decisions. Unless you
have already successfully changed their minds about this, they are not
going to be eager to see their good decisions reversed in favour of
poorer ones; in fact, they are going to take your desire to do so as
strong evidence that you make bad design decisions and so should not be
allowed near the code.

(Note that this holds true regardless of who is actually right about
what the correct design decisions are.)

- cks

[Giovanni Tumiati]

Post by Thomas Adam
Hello all,
This is a very quick note to let you all know that as of next year I will be
stepping down as the maintainer of FVWM -- largely this role is a very loose
one, but since I seem to be the most vocal and more visibally active
developer here, I felt it wise to mention this just in case people wonder
where I've gone.
I do not have the time anymore to devote to this project. As such, I will
still be providing ad-hoc bug-fixes, and general advice, but that's about
all. I will not be working on any major features.
My last batch of work on this will be to complete module deprecation, even
if that's stub code. Dominik Vogt and I are completing work on the Git
conversion still, which I am pleased about.
These will be done by early next year. As soon as that happens, I shall
release FVWM 2.6.4 -- after that, well, that's someone else's problem. :)
Thanks all. It's been fun. :)
-- Thomas Adam

As a committed user since way back, I thank you for all your patience
and contributions.

Any idea how development will be organized after you move on? Will FVWM
go into maintenance mode only? I really hope it does not become like
Nedit - I've been carrying forward a binary of this gem (compiled a long
time ago) to every Slackware upgrade. :-)

Regardless of what may happen, all the best to you.

[Thomas Adam]

Post by Giovanni Tumiati
Any idea how development will be organized after you move on? Will
FVWM go into maintenance mode only? I really hope it does not become

I thought it was mentioned on more than one occasion what would happen.
FVWM has always been in maintence mode, that's all I was ever doing.

-- Thomas Adam

[Thomas Adam]

Hi,

Post by Thomas Adam
Hello all,
This is a very quick note to let you all know that as of next year I will be
stepping down as the maintainer of FVWM -- largely this role is a very loose
one, but since I seem to be the most vocal and more visibally active
developer here, I felt it wise to mention this just in case people wonder
where I've gone.
I do not have the time anymore to devote to this project. As such, I will
still be providing ad-hoc bug-fixes, and general advice, but that's about
all. I will not be working on any major features.

I'd hoped to do more on this, but cannot. I really now do not have
sufficient time to devote to this project.

I will be around if you need me for general questions, etc., a lurker
if you will, but I cannot guarantee or promise an active role in
FVWM's development, and I wouldn't want anyone here to rely on that
possibility. So until/if that changes, consider me idle.

As far as 2.6.5's release goes, that too will have to be handled by
someone else.

The Wiki and FvwmForums I shall keep ticking over for everyone to enjoy.

I want to thank everyone for their efforts and help over the years.
I've enjoyed it. :)

Bye bye...

-- Thomas Adam

[Thomas Funk]

Post by Thomas Adam
I'd hoped to do more on this, but cannot. I really now do not have
sufficient time to devote to this project.
I will be around if you need me for general questions, etc., a lurker
if you will, but I cannot guarantee or promise an active role in
FVWM's development, and I wouldn't want anyone here to rely on that
possibility. So until/if that changes, consider me idle.
As far as 2.6.5's release goes, that too will have to be handled by
someone else.
The Wiki and FvwmForums I shall keep ticking over for everyone to enjoy.
I want to thank everyone for their efforts and help over the years.
I've enjoyed it. :)
Bye bye...
-- Thomas Adam

It's too bad that you leave the project :( ... at least you're in the
background, so perhaps, in the future, you'll find time to come back ...
would be fine ...

I wish you all the best and ... what can I say more than thank you very
much for all your help and pretty good work over the years ...

Respectfully,

Thomas