Discussion:
FVWM: Fvwmpager crashes if no pages are to be shown
M***@gmx.de
2010-08-12 14:21:53 UTC
Permalink
Hi!

I think that I found the first bug.
I made a combination of pagers for me as shown in the attachment.

Straight in the bottom left corner, I made an FvwmPager that I
called "minipager".

I gave it these "Geometry" attributes:
*minipager: Geometry 110x44+2+978

I deliberately chose the 44 to hide the viewports (pages).
I only want to see the desks and nothing else (see the
PNG attachment).

But, this size specification 44 triggers the bug.

The problem is, as soon as I hold down the Shift+Win+Right
key binding (or any other binding - see my attached binding
config file) to quickly scroll through all 12 desks or
to scroll through all 12 viewports for 20 seconds, the
"minipager" disappears. I think that it simply crashes.

If I give more than 44 pixels so that some parts oft the
viewports are shown, then it does not crash. But, then I
see viewports and I don't want to see them.

If I give less than say 35 pixels, then the desks are so
small that I only see parts of the desk numbers, and it
does not crash. But, the problem is that then I only see
parts of the desk numbers, and I want to see every part of
the desk numbers.

Can anyone of you reproduce this bug?


Best regards,
Michael
Thomas Adam
2010-08-12 14:23:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@gmx.de
Hi!
I think that I found the first bug.
I made a combination of pagers for me as shown in the attachment.
I'll look into this when I get home. Thanks for the instructions.

Is there a corefile? Can you get a backtrace? (Assuming you allow corefile
creation -- see "ulimit" for details if not.)

-- Thomas Adam
M***@gmx.de
2010-08-12 14:45:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Adam
Post by M***@gmx.de
Hi!
I think that I found the first bug.
I made a combination of pagers for me as shown in the attachment.
I'll look into this when I get home. Thanks for the instructions.
Is there a corefile? Can you get a backtrace? (Assuming you allow corefile
creation -- see "ulimit" for details if not.)
It's a bit tricky for me to generate core dumps.
I have to find out how to do this. Perhaps at
the weekand.

If you easily can reproduce this bug, then I think,
I don't need to create a core dump or something.
If you cannot easily reproduce this bug, then I could
find out how to create core dumps over the weekend
and send a core dump to you.

OK?
Michael



P.S.
I use Fvwm 2.5.26 at Debian Lenny.
Thomas Adam
2010-08-12 17:33:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@gmx.de
Hi!
I think that I found the first bug.
I made a combination of pagers for me as shown in the attachment.
Straight in the bottom left corner, I made an FvwmPager that I
called "minipager".
*minipager: Geometry 110x44+2+978
I deliberately chose the 44 to hide the viewports (pages).
I only want to see the desks and nothing else (see the
PNG attachment).
But, this size specification 44 triggers the bug.
The problem is, as soon as I hold down the Shift+Win+Right
key binding (or any other binding - see my attached binding
config file) to quickly scroll through all 12 desks or
to scroll through all 12 viewports for 20 seconds, the
"minipager" disappears. I think that it simply crashes.
Try not to "think" -- it's either crashing or it isn't -- and as I
suspected, I am unable to reproduce this. Note that I am using 2.5.31
though -- a version you should be using, and one I seem to recall asking you
to use before.

So I am afraid unless you can ascertain a corefile for me to analyse, or
provide additional instructions using FVWM 2.5.31 which *still* exhibit this
problem, I am unable to help you.

-- Thomas Adam
--
"Deep in my heart I wish I was wrong. But deep in my heart I know I am
not." -- Morrissey ("Girl Least Likely To" -- off of Viva Hate.)
M***@gmx.de
2010-08-12 22:51:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Adam
Post by M***@gmx.de
Hi!
I think that I found the first bug.
I made a combination of pagers for me as shown in the attachment.
Straight in the bottom left corner, I made an FvwmPager that I
called "minipager".
*minipager: Geometry 110x44+2+978
I deliberately chose the 44 to hide the viewports (pages).
I only want to see the desks and nothing else (see the
PNG attachment).
But, this size specification 44 triggers the bug.
The problem is, as soon as I hold down the Shift+Win+Right
key binding (or any other binding - see my attached binding
config file) to quickly scroll through all 12 desks or
to scroll through all 12 viewports for 20 seconds, the
"minipager" disappears. I think that it simply crashes.
Try not to "think" -- it's either crashing or it isn't -- and as I
suspected, I am unable to reproduce this. Note that I am using 2.5.31
though -- a version you should be using, and one I seem to recall asking you
to use before.
So I am afraid unless you can ascertain a corefile for me to analyse, or
provide additional instructions using FVWM 2.5.31 which *still* exhibit this
problem, I am unable to help you.
I just now reproduced this bug in Debian Squeeze with FVWM 2.5.30.

Core dump and/or FVWM 2.5.31 is more complex, so I will try these options
later.

Michael
Thomas Adam
2010-08-28 22:22:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@gmx.de
Post by Thomas Adam
Post by M***@gmx.de
Hi!
I think that I found the first bug.
I made a combination of pagers for me as shown in the attachment.
Straight in the bottom left corner, I made an FvwmPager that I
called "minipager".
*minipager: Geometry 110x44+2+978
I deliberately chose the 44 to hide the viewports (pages).
I only want to see the desks and nothing else (see the
PNG attachment).
But, this size specification 44 triggers the bug.
The problem is, as soon as I hold down the Shift+Win+Right
key binding (or any other binding - see my attached binding
config file) to quickly scroll through all 12 desks or
to scroll through all 12 viewports for 20 seconds, the
"minipager" disappears. I think that it simply crashes.
Try not to "think" -- it's either crashing or it isn't -- and as I
suspected, I am unable to reproduce this. Note that I am using 2.5.31
though -- a version you should be using, and one I seem to recall asking you
to use before.
So I am afraid unless you can ascertain a corefile for me to analyse, or
provide additional instructions using FVWM 2.5.31 which *still* exhibit this
problem, I am unable to help you.
I just now reproduced this bug in Debian Squeeze with FVWM 2.5.30.
Core dump and/or FVWM 2.5.31 is more complex, so I will try these options
later.
Has there been any progress on this?

-- Thomas Adam
--
"It was the cruelest game I've ever played and it's played inside my head."
-- "Hush The Warmth", Gorky's Zygotic Mynci.
Michael Großer
2010-08-29 11:10:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Adam
Post by M***@gmx.de
Post by Thomas Adam
Post by M***@gmx.de
Hi!
I think that I found the first bug.
I made a combination of pagers for me as shown in the attachment.
Straight in the bottom left corner, I made an FvwmPager that I
called "minipager".
*minipager: Geometry 110x44+2+978
I deliberately chose the 44 to hide the viewports (pages).
I only want to see the desks and nothing else (see the
PNG attachment).
But, this size specification 44 triggers the bug.
The problem is, as soon as I hold down the Shift+Win+Right
key binding (or any other binding - see my attached binding
config file) to quickly scroll through all 12 desks or
to scroll through all 12 viewports for 20 seconds, the
"minipager" disappears. I think that it simply crashes.
Try not to "think" -- it's either crashing or it isn't -- and as I
suspected, I am unable to reproduce this. Note that I am using 2.5.31
though -- a version you should be using, and one I seem to recall asking you
to use before.
So I am afraid unless you can ascertain a corefile for me to analyse, or
provide additional instructions using FVWM 2.5.31 which *still* exhibit this
problem, I am unable to help you.
I just now reproduced this bug in Debian Squeeze with FVWM 2.5.30.
Core dump and/or FVWM 2.5.31 is more complex, so I will try these options
later.
Has there been any progress on this?
Unfortunately no. I have to work to make my customers happy
and earn money :-(

Latest news was: It crashes in "2.5.26", "2.5.30" and "2.5.31".

The problem is that it is not so easy to produce a core dump.
To get a core dump, the command "ulimit -c" has to return
the "unlimited" result. But currently, it returns "0", which
means that no core dump es generated.

I have to set "ulimit -c unlimited".

Two and a half weeks ago, I found via Google these
links that I tried to understand:
- http://www.akadia.com/services/ora_enable_core.html
- http://www.gentooforum.de/artikel/13876/core-dump-file-analyse.html

Result: I cannot find a way to get "ulimit -c" returning
an "unlimited" result.

Two and a half weeks ago, I asked in a Debian forum and I
got a non-working result there. I only now followed up
in that forum.

Today, I tried this using a Debian Lenny installation
not connected to the Internet:

1.) Enter into the file "/etc/security/limits.conf"
Post by Thomas Adam
* soft core unlimited
* hard core unlimited
2.) Comment out each occurrence of "session required pam_limits.so"
in these files:

- /etc/pam.d/gdm
- /etc/pam.d/kdm-np
- /etc/pam.d/kdm
- /etc/pam.d/gdm-autologin
- /etc/pam.d/login
- /etc/pam.d/sudo
- /etc/pam.d/cron
Post by Thomas Adam
AddToFunc StartFunction
+ I Exec exec ulimit -c unlimited
echo "ulimit -c unlimited">/etc/init.d/enable_core_dump.sh
chmod 755 /etc/init.d/enable_core_dump.sh
update-rc.d enable_core_dump.sh defaults 80
Nothing of these efforts led to a result.

If someone could help me to create a core dump or even to
get "ulimit -c" returning an "unlimited" result, then I
could create this desired core dump relatively fast.

Otherwise, I will do this core dump thing in September if
I have more time to find out how this stuff works.


Best regards,
Michael
Thomas Adam
2010-08-29 11:17:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Großer
Result: I cannot find a way to get "ulimit -c" returning
an "unlimited" result.
It's really quite simple. You do this in your ~/.bashrc file:

ulimit -c unlimited

... and then you start FVWM in the normal way.

Don't go near /etc/security/limits.conf -- that's per-process, and not what
you're after.

-- Thomas Adam
--
"It was the cruelest game I've ever played and it's played inside my head."
-- "Hush The Warmth", Gorky's Zygotic Mynci.
M***@gmx.de
2010-08-29 13:54:49 UTC
Permalink
-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Datum: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 12:17:52 +0100
Betreff: Re: FVWM: Fvwmpager crashes if no pages are to be shown
Post by Michael Großer
Result: I cannot find a way to get "ulimit -c" returning
an "unlimited" result.
ulimit -c unlimited
... and then you start FVWM in the normal way.
Don't go near /etc/security/limits.conf -- that's per-process, and not what
you're after.
Hi!

It seems that I am one step closer to get a core file.
"ulimit -c" now returns an "unlimited" result.
Problem is that I cannot provoke any core dump from any
application.

Which directory is to contain the core dump after FvwmPager
crashes? The home directory "~" of the user? What is to be the
name of the core dump file? Is it "~/core"?

I know this kind of file from 1997 till 2001 when I was learning
and using UNIX at HP and Silicon Graphics computers. At that time,
it frequently jammed our home directories with core dumps as soon
as Netscape crashed.

How can I generally provoke core dumps?
I used "killall -9" to kill xterm, bash, firefox-bin, acroread
and mplayer. Nothing of these applications created a core
dump.

Further, I used my "PointerKey Escape A CM Destroy" key
binding to kill some windows in a hard way. Also this
didn't create any core dump.

What else do I have to keep in mind?
Does it matter if an fvwm session is used as root or
as user? (In both cases FvwmPager crashes if I switch
desktops too often in a certain time slot.)

I think, it would be a good idea to generally be able to
provoke a core dump, for example using "killal -9" or something.

Then, if I'm sure that my system is able to create core dumps,
I could let crash FvwmPager and just find the needed core dump...

Michael
d***@verizon.net
2010-08-29 14:24:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@gmx.de
-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Datum: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 12:17:52 +0100
Betreff: Re: FVWM: Fvwmpager crashes if no pages are to be shown
Post by Michael Großer
Result: I cannot find a way to get "ulimit -c" returning
an "unlimited" result.
ulimit -c unlimited
... and then you start FVWM in the normal way.
Don't go near /etc/security/limits.conf -- that's per-process, and not what
you're after.
Hi!
It seems that I am one step closer to get a core file.
"ulimit -c" now returns an "unlimited" result.
Problem is that I cannot provoke any core dump from any
application.
Which directory is to contain the core dump after FvwmPager
crashes? The home directory "~" of the user? What is to be the
name of the core dump file? Is it "~/core"?
The core file should be in $HOME.
The file name will be ~/core.nnnnn
where nnnnn is some number.
Post by M***@gmx.de
How can I generally provoke core dumps?
I used "killall -9" to kill xterm, bash, firefox-bin, acroread
and mplayer. Nothing of these applications created a core
dump.
Provoke the core dump by causing the Pager to crash.

After you have a core file,
ask us what to do next.
Michael Großer
2010-08-29 17:16:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@verizon.net
Post by M***@gmx.de
-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Datum: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 12:17:52 +0100
Betreff: Re: FVWM: Fvwmpager crashes if no pages are to be shown
Post by Michael Großer
Result: I cannot find a way to get "ulimit -c" returning
an "unlimited" result.
ulimit -c unlimited
... and then you start FVWM in the normal way.
Don't go near /etc/security/limits.conf -- that's per-process, and not what
you're after.
Hi!
It seems that I am one step closer to get a core file.
"ulimit -c" now returns an "unlimited" result.
Problem is that I cannot provoke any core dump from any
application.
Which directory is to contain the core dump after FvwmPager
crashes? The home directory "~" of the user? What is to be the
name of the core dump file? Is it "~/core"?
The core file should be in $HOME.
The file name will be ~/core.nnnnn
where nnnnn is some number.
Post by M***@gmx.de
How can I generally provoke core dumps?
I used "killall -9" to kill xterm, bash, firefox-bin, acroread
and mplayer. Nothing of these applications created a core
dump.
Provoke the core dump by causing the Pager to crash.
After you have a core file,
ask us what to do next.
Hi!

There is no file containing "core" in its name at $HOME.
I searched the whole hard disk of one computer and found
nothing that could be dumped by fvwm.



I try another way.

Here is a temporary link (would be too large for an attachment):
http://www.jumping-blue-turtle.com/fvwm/config_plus_screenshots.tar.bz2

I reduced my fvwm configuration to a minimum.
I ask you to try this out.

I made two versions.

Version 1 is:
config_plus_screenshots/fvwm_2-5-26_lenny
- It contains a screenshot "FvwmPager_lenny.png" to show you
what I want to achieve.
- It contains the pager configuration and some very simple
key bindings:
- Win+Arrows to scroll throw the pages
- Shift+Win+Arrows to scroll throw the desks

Version 2 is:
config_plus_screenshots/fvwm_2_5_31_squeeze
- It contains the screenshot "FvwmPager_squeeze.png".
- It contains an adjusted pager and key bindings configuration

Please study these configuration files and try them out.

Look at the screen shots:
- At the bottom left, you see a pager that shows
12 desks.

- Next to this pager, in the right direction, you see
a pager that shows 12 pages per desk and 4 desks
at once. It shows either Desk 1 to Desk 4, Desk 5 to Desk 8
or Desk 9 to Desk 12.

The small pager at the bottom left is of particular interest.
This is the one that crashes (or disappears). I will
explain later the precise preconditions to make it crash.

It is important to understand my demands:

1.) My goal is to get a pager that does not show
any part of the viewport.

2.) My goal is to get a pager that does show the
complete number of the desks. Not only
the half of the digit "1" but also the whole
digit "1". Not only the half of the digit "2"
but also the whole digit "2". And so on up to
12.

The problem is that these two demands are the
cause of the crashing.

If some parts of the viewports are shown, then
nothing crashes.

If some parts of the desktop labels are not shown
(if the desktop labels are not completely shown),
then nothing crashes.

It only crashes if the geometry of the pager exactly
fulfills my two demands explained above.

The next problem is that different Linux versions
come with different font sizes. If the font sizes
of the desktop labels do not fit to my geometry
specification in the configuration files, then
the pager does not exactly fulfill my two demands
explained above anymore, and consequently the
bug cannot be reproduced.

This is the cause I made to versions of the
config files with two accordant screenshots.

Lenny - fvwm 2.5.26
-------------------
Post by d***@verizon.net
Post by M***@gmx.de
*minipager: Geometry 110x44+2+978
Squeeze - fvwm 2.5.31
---------------------
Post by d***@verizon.net
Post by M***@gmx.de
*minipager: Geometry 110x45+2+962
Since at Debian Squeeze the fonts need more space,
the digits are not completely displayed with the
110x44 sizing, so I had to go up to 110x45 to
get the digits completely displayed.



You have to keep in mind that it is very important
to meet my two demands explained above. So please,
set your own geometry until you get this result.



Finally, I show you how to crash the pager.
Look at the file "0003_simple_keyboard_bindings".
You will find a key binding "Shift+Win+Right"
to go to the next desktop.

So, now press the Shift key and hold it down.
Do not release it.

Then, press the Win key and and hold it down.
Do not release it.

Finally, press right arrow key and and hold it down.
Do not release it.

Now, fvwm is switching from dektop 1 to 2, from
2 to 3, ..., from 11 to 12, from 12 to 1, and so on.
After 4 or 5 seconds (now I stopped it with the stop
watch), the left bottom pager just disappears.

I don't know why, but this is not normal.





Please do me the favor and try this out.
After you have seen it, how it disappears,
you can try to answer me why this pager
without further ado just - disappears.

Michael
M***@gmx.de
2010-08-30 15:09:39 UTC
Permalink
Possibly Thomas and I talked at cross-purposes.

I explain:

- Yesterday I sent this message below twice to the list
and it was put to a waiting loop by the server twice.

- Offlist, Thomas and I mailed something about the waiting loop.

- I sent Thomas the stalled version (see below)
and thought, he read it. But obviously he didn't find
it, because I put the message at the end of the
offlist message.

- Over the night, Thomas wrote something about something
that I thought he read, but possible he quoted an
old version of my config.

- So, my hint that the whole config is not needed
could not be understood by Thomas.

- In the meanwhile, I sent the nearly whole config
to Thomas, with the hint that he does not need it,
that it is just to get some ideas from an fvwm beginner
like me.

Anyway, the message quoted below now is sent through the
list by the server. And it gives you a reduced config.
It is possible that I reduce it even further than I reduced
it yesterdey by throughing away the not disappearing pager.
But, if someone has some time, even with this remaining
ballast of the second not crashing pager it could be possible
to reproduce the bug that I found.

Sorry for the misunderstandings. It all went so fast.
And apart from that, I even so learned some new stuff
about fvwm.

Michael




-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Datum: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 19:16:01 +0200
Betreff: Re: FVWM: Fvwmpager crashes if no pages are to be shown
Post by d***@verizon.net
Post by M***@gmx.de
-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Datum: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 12:17:52 +0100
Betreff: Re: FVWM: Fvwmpager crashes if no pages are to be shown
Post by Michael Großer
Result: I cannot find a way to get "ulimit -c" returning
an "unlimited" result.
ulimit -c unlimited
... and then you start FVWM in the normal way.
Don't go near /etc/security/limits.conf -- that's per-process, and not what
you're after.
Hi!
It seems that I am one step closer to get a core file.
"ulimit -c" now returns an "unlimited" result.
Problem is that I cannot provoke any core dump from any
application.
Which directory is to contain the core dump after FvwmPager
crashes? The home directory "~" of the user? What is to be the
name of the core dump file? Is it "~/core"?
The core file should be in $HOME.
The file name will be ~/core.nnnnn
where nnnnn is some number.
Post by M***@gmx.de
How can I generally provoke core dumps?
I used "killall -9" to kill xterm, bash, firefox-bin, acroread
and mplayer. Nothing of these applications created a core
dump.
Provoke the core dump by causing the Pager to crash.
After you have a core file,
ask us what to do next.
Hi!
There is no file containing "core" in its name at $HOME.
I searched the whole hard disk of one computer and found
nothing that could be dumped by fvwm.
I try another way.
http://www.jumping-blue-turtle.com/fvwm/config_plus_screenshots.tar.bz2
I reduced my fvwm configuration to a minimum.
I ask you to try this out.
I made two versions.
config_plus_screenshots/fvwm_2-5-26_lenny
- It contains a screenshot "FvwmPager_lenny.png" to show you
what I want to achieve.
- It contains the pager configuration and some very simple
- Win+Arrows to scroll throw the pages
- Shift+Win+Arrows to scroll throw the desks
config_plus_screenshots/fvwm_2_5_31_squeeze
- It contains the screenshot "FvwmPager_squeeze.png".
- It contains an adjusted pager and key bindings configuration
Please study these configuration files and try them out.
- At the bottom left, you see a pager that shows
12 desks.
- Next to this pager, in the right direction, you see
a pager that shows 12 pages per desk and 4 desks
at once. It shows either Desk 1 to Desk 4, Desk 5 to Desk 8
or Desk 9 to Desk 12.
The small pager at the bottom left is of particular interest.
This is the one that crashes (or disappears). I will
explain later the precise preconditions to make it crash.
1.) My goal is to get a pager that does not show
any part of the viewport.
2.) My goal is to get a pager that does show the
complete number of the desks. Not only
the half of the digit "1" but also the whole
digit "1". Not only the half of the digit "2"
but also the whole digit "2". And so on up to
12.
The problem is that these two demands are the
cause of the crashing.
If some parts of the viewports are shown, then
nothing crashes.
If some parts of the desktop labels are not shown
(if the desktop labels are not completely shown),
then nothing crashes.
It only crashes if the geometry of the pager exactly
fulfills my two demands explained above.
The next problem is that different Linux versions
come with different font sizes. If the font sizes
of the desktop labels do not fit to my geometry
specification in the configuration files, then
the pager does not exactly fulfill my two demands
explained above anymore, and consequently the
bug cannot be reproduced.
This is the cause I made to versions of the
config files with two accordant screenshots.
Lenny - fvwm 2.5.26
-------------------
Post by d***@verizon.net
Post by M***@gmx.de
*minipager: Geometry 110x44+2+978
Squeeze - fvwm 2.5.31
---------------------
Post by d***@verizon.net
Post by M***@gmx.de
*minipager: Geometry 110x45+2+962
Since at Debian Squeeze the fonts need more space,
the digits are not completely displayed with the
110x44 sizing, so I had to go up to 110x45 to
get the digits completely displayed.
You have to keep in mind that it is very important
to meet my two demands explained above. So please,
set your own geometry until you get this result.
Finally, I show you how to crash the pager.
Look at the file "0003_simple_keyboard_bindings".
You will find a key binding "Shift+Win+Right"
to go to the next desktop.
So, now press the Shift key and hold it down.
Do not release it.
Then, press the Win key and and hold it down.
Do not release it.
Finally, press right arrow key and and hold it down.
Do not release it.
Now, fvwm is switching from dektop 1 to 2, from
2 to 3, ..., from 11 to 12, from 12 to 1, and so on.
After 4 or 5 seconds (now I stopped it with the stop
watch), the left bottom pager just disappears.
I don't know why, but this is not normal.
Please do me the favor and try this out.
After you have seen it, how it disappears,
you can try to answer me why this pager
without further ado just - disappears.
Michael
--
Thomas Adam
2010-08-30 18:47:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@gmx.de
- So, my hint that the whole config is not needed
could not be understood by Thomas.
That's fine, don't worry. :)

But if I ask for something, it's because I need it. If you think otherwise,
that's equally fine, just don't expect my help, as my time is limited as it
is without more bureaucracy.

Unfortunately there's nothing more I personally am willing to do on this.
I've followed your very good steps to make the FvwmPager crash as you've
described, and I cannot get it to crash; no matter what I try.

So until you or someone else can get a backtrace from a generated corefile
(and hence prove to me otherwise that it really *is* crashing, and not doing
something else), I really am not prepared to spend any more time on this.

One last note: I rarely appreciate off-list emails -- in the cases you're
describing, there wasn't anything of note which you couldn't have posted to
this list. If you want to reference config files, you will have to host
them yourself.

I don't appreciate seeing XMB tarball attachments to this list, and I
suspect the list admin won't either. If you -really- don't have any hosting
for files, I can always provide you with some -- although with the advent of
things like github, the need for this tends to diminish.

-- Thomas Adam
--
"It was the cruelest game I've ever played and it's played inside my head."
-- "Hush The Warmth", Gorky's Zygotic Mynci.
Michael Großer
2010-08-31 03:32:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Adam
Post by M***@gmx.de
- So, my hint that the whole config is not needed
could not be understood by Thomas.
That's fine, don't worry. :)
But if I ask for something, it's because I need it. If you think otherwise,
that's equally fine, just don't expect my help, as my time is limited as it
is without more bureaucracy.
Unfortunately there's nothing more I personally am willing to do on this.
I've followed your very good steps to make the FvwmPager crash as you've
described, and I cannot get it to crash; no matter what I try.
So until you or someone else can get a backtrace from a generated corefile
(and hence prove to me otherwise that it really *is* crashing, and not doing
something else), I really am not prepared to spend any more time on this.
One last note: I rarely appreciate off-list emails -- in the cases you're
describing, there wasn't anything of note which you couldn't have posted to
this list. If you want to reference config files, you will have to host
them yourself.
I don't appreciate seeing XMB tarball attachments to this list, and I
suspect the list admin won't either. If you -really- don't have any hosting
for files, I can always provide you with some -- although with the advent of
things like github, the need for this tends to diminish.
-- Thomas Adam
Seems that I have to analyze the 2246 lines of code of FvwmPager.c
by myself at Christmas 2010 or so.
Michael Großer
2010-08-29 16:36:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@verizon.net
Post by M***@gmx.de
-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Datum: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 12:17:52 +0100
Betreff: Re: FVWM: Fvwmpager crashes if no pages are to be shown
Post by Michael Großer
Result: I cannot find a way to get "ulimit -c" returning
an "unlimited" result.
ulimit -c unlimited
... and then you start FVWM in the normal way.
Don't go near /etc/security/limits.conf -- that's per-process, and not what
you're after.
Hi!
It seems that I am one step closer to get a core file.
"ulimit -c" now returns an "unlimited" result.
Problem is that I cannot provoke any core dump from any
application.
Which directory is to contain the core dump after FvwmPager
crashes? The home directory "~" of the user? What is to be the
name of the core dump file? Is it "~/core"?
The core file should be in $HOME.
The file name will be ~/core.nnnnn
where nnnnn is some number.
Post by M***@gmx.de
How can I generally provoke core dumps?
I used "killall -9" to kill xterm, bash, firefox-bin, acroread
and mplayer. Nothing of these applications created a core
dump.
Provoke the core dump by causing the Pager to crash.
After you have a core file,
ask us what to do next.
Hi!

There is no file containing "core" in its name at $HOME.
I searched the whole hard disk of one computer and found
nothing that could be dumped by fvwm.



I try another way.

I reduced my fvwm configuration to a minimum.
I ask you to try this out.

I made two versions.

Version 1 is:
config_plus_screenshots/fvwm_2-5-26_lenny
- It contains a screenshot "FvwmPager_lenny.png" to show you
what I want to achieve.
- It contains the pager configuration and some very simple
key bindings:
- Win+Arrows to scroll throw the pages
- Shift+Win+Arrows to scroll throw the desks

Version 2 is:
config_plus_screenshots/fvwm_2_5_31_squeeze
- It contains the screenshot "FvwmPager_squeeze.png".
- It contains an adjusted pager and key bindings configuration

Please study these configuration files and try them out.

Look at the screen shots:
- At the bottom left, you see a pager that shows
12 desks.

- Next to this pager, in the right direction, you see
a pager that shows 12 pages per desk and 4 desks
at once. It shows either Desk 1 to Desk 4, Desk 5 to Desk 8
or Desk 9 to Desk 12.

The small pager at the bottom left is of particular interest.
This is the one that crashes (or disappears). I will
explain later the precise preconditions to make it crash.

It is important to understand my demands:

1.) My goal is to get a pager that does not show
any part of the viewport.

2.) My goal is to get a pager that does show the
complete number of the desks. Not only
the half of the digit "1" but also the whole
digit "1". Not only the half of the digit "2"
but also the whole digit "2". And so on up to
12.

The problem is that these two demands are the
cause of the crashing.

If some parts of the viewports are shown, then
nothing crashes.

If some parts of the desktop labels are not shown
(if the desktop labels are not completely shown),
then nothing crashes.

It only crashes if the geometry of the pager exactly
fulfills my two demands explained above.

The next problem is that different Linux versions
come with different font sizes. If the font sizes
of the desktop labels do not fit to my geometry
specification in the configuration files, then
the pager does not exactly fulfill my two demands
explained above anymore, and consequently the
bug cannot be reproduced.

This is the cause I made to versions of the
config files with two accordant screenshots.

Lenny - fvwm 2.5.26
-------------------
Post by d***@verizon.net
*minipager: Geometry 110x44+2+978
Squeeze - fvwm 2.5.31
---------------------
Post by d***@verizon.net
*minipager: Geometry 110x45+2+962
Since at Debian Squeeze the fonts need more space,
the digits are not completely displayed with the
110x44 sizing, so I had to go up to 110x45 to
get the digits completely displayed.



You have to keep in mind that it is very important
to meet my two demands explained above. So please,
set your own geometry until you get this result.



Finally, I show you how to crash the pager.
Look at the file "0003_simple_keyboard_bindings".
You will find a key binding "Shift+Win+Right"
to go to the next desktop.

So, now press the Shift key and hold it down.
Do not release it.

Then, press the Win key and and hold it down.
Do not release it.

Finally, press right arrow key and and hold it down.
Do not release it.

Now, fvwm is switching from dektop 1 to 2, from
2 to 3, ..., from 11 to 12, from 12 to 1, and so on.
After 4 or 5 seconds (now I stopped it with the stop
watch), the left bottom pager just disappears.

I don't know why, but this is not normal.





Please do me the favor and try this out.
After you have seen it, how it disappears,
you can try to answer me why this pager
without further ado just - disappears.

Michael
Thomas Adam
2010-08-29 19:05:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Großer
Post by Thomas Adam
Post by M***@gmx.de
Post by Thomas Adam
Post by M***@gmx.de
Hi!
I think that I found the first bug.
I made a combination of pagers for me as shown in the attachment.
Straight in the bottom left corner, I made an FvwmPager that I
called "minipager".
*minipager: Geometry 110x44+2+978
I deliberately chose the 44 to hide the viewports (pages).
I only want to see the desks and nothing else (see the
PNG attachment).
But, this size specification 44 triggers the bug.
The problem is, as soon as I hold down the Shift+Win+Right
key binding (or any other binding - see my attached binding
config file) to quickly scroll through all 12 desks or
to scroll through all 12 viewports for 20 seconds, the
"minipager" disappears. I think that it simply crashes.
Try not to "think" -- it's either crashing or it isn't -- and as I
suspected, I am unable to reproduce this. Note that I am using 2.5.31
though -- a version you should be using, and one I seem to recall asking you
to use before.
So I am afraid unless you can ascertain a corefile for me to analyse, or
provide additional instructions using FVWM 2.5.31 which *still* exhibit this
problem, I am unable to help you.
I just now reproduced this bug in Debian Squeeze with FVWM 2.5.30.
Core dump and/or FVWM 2.5.31 is more complex, so I will try these options
later.
Has there been any progress on this?
Unfortunately no. I have to work to make my customers happy
and earn money :-(
Latest news was: It crashes in "2.5.26", "2.5.30" and "2.5.31".
I don't think it's crashing at all. In fact, I think FvwmPager is as stable
as it's ever been.

Without your entire config present, I can't offer an explanation as to why
you get the results you do -- it might very well be that the pager is
closing, but that's different from crashing.

Let's see what I notice first of all:

# start several pagers
AddToFunc StartFunction
+ I GotoDesk 0 0
+ I FvwmPager minipager 0 11
+ I Wait minipager

+ I GotoDesk 0 0
+ I FvwmPager 0 3
+ I Wait FvwmPager

+ I GotoDesk 0 1
+ I FvwmPager 0 3
+ I Wait FvwmPager

... etc., etc. You seem to have not heeded my very original advise to you
regarding *why* the above is problematic. It doesn't have anything to do
with your problem, BTW, it's just mildly frustrating that you're asking for
help and not doing anything with the advise you're given.

It also makes me dubious about how much else you're selectively ignoring,
but it's a Bank Holiday for me, so you get the benefit of my doubt. :)
(And who says I don't live up to my namesake?)

So by this point, for each of your defined desks, we have a separate pager
per *page*. Meanwhile, there's only one instance of your minipager running,
it's just sticky. Fine. But if it closes, then it closes completely and
you'll never see it again. If it crashed you would get a corefile -- I
promise you that. So I suspect something is closing it. I don't know what,
I *might* be able to tell from looking at the rest of your configs, and even
an ~/.xsession-error log, if FVWM ever printed anything there. But I really
don't think there's anything untoward happening here. There's no link
necessarily between continually bombarding FVWM with module commands to
switch desks, and a pager closing/crashing. Heck, I made myself dizzy
switching pages and desks earlier, following your instructions, and still
couldn't get it to crash.

But the minipager there is a gratuitous "hack" for what is simply a desk
chooser -- something you can use FvwmButtons for -- and this is ultimately
what you *should* be doing. Here:

DestroyModuleConfig foo:*
*foo: Columns x
*foo: Rows y
*foo: (1x1, Title z, Action (Mouse 1) GotoDesk z)

... where: x, y and z, are calculated from $[pages.nx] $[pages.ny], etc.
That's an exercise best left to you to work out -- hint: PipeRead is your
friend here and a simple for(( .....)) loop in sh.

Now -- the part that makes this more interesting is making your requirement
of seeing only four desks per desk for which you're currently on. Well,
here's one way of doing it using FvwmEvent:

DestroyModuleConfig foo2:*
*foo2: new_desk SomeFunc

AddToFunc StartFunction I Module FvwmEvent foo2

DestroyFunc SomeFunc
AddToFunc SomeFunc
+ I KillModule FvwmPager some_alias
+ I PipeRead `[[ $[desk.n] -le 3 ]] && echo \
"Module FvwmPager some_alias 0 3" ||
[[ $[desk.n] -gt 3 ]] && [[ $[desk.n] -le 7 ]] && \
echo "Module FvwmPager some_alias 4 7"`

... etc., etc. Note that I'd use a simple modulo calculation to make this
easier here.

Now -- the interesting part here is that if you made this pager sticky --
you could then also selectively work out within a given range of a desk you
were on, whether you needed to kill the pager or not -- reducing the need to
start it up again each time. But that's just showing off... :)

Welcome to FVWM.

-- Thomas Adam
--
"Deep in my heart I wish I was wrong. But deep in my heart I know I am
not." -- Morrissey ("Girl Least Likely To" -- off of Viva Hate.)
Michael Großer
2010-08-30 05:38:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Adam
# start several pagers
AddToFunc StartFunction
+ I GotoDesk 0 0
+ I FvwmPager minipager 0 11
+ I Wait minipager
+ I GotoDesk 0 0
+ I FvwmPager 0 3
+ I Wait FvwmPager
+ I GotoDesk 0 1
+ I FvwmPager 0 3
+ I Wait FvwmPager
... etc., etc. You seem to have not heeded my very original advise to you
regarding *why* the above is problematic. It doesn't have anything to do
with your problem, BTW, it's just mildly frustrating that you're asking for
help and not doing anything with the advise you're given.
If you speak about the wait function: I *tried* to avoid the
wait function. I wrote another solution using StartsOnDesktop
instead of the wait function. The result was that fvwm
did not keep the current desk + page anymore after
Post by Thomas Adam
Key Pause A CM Restart
After each restart, fvwm showed a random desktop and page.
Using the wait function, after a restart, fvwm shows exactly
this desktop and page that was shown before the restart.

This is the reason why I still use the wait function.

So, I do not ignore some advices of you. I just found
out that not every advise works for me and the fact
that I did not have the time to write you that some
advice did not work because it has unwanted side effects
makes you think that I just ignore your advices.

(When I started learning fvwm, there where a lot of
problems I was faced with, so I had to assign priorities
even within my littly project "learning fvwm", and
justifying why I anyway need the wait function
had a low priority, because this construction site
at least worked for me without problems.)

Another advise of you is using the latest version of fvwm.
I use an experimental Linux system to test the problems
at the latest fvwm 2.5.31. It was not so easy to
find out how to update the "2.5.30" to a "2.5.31",
but finally I got the result after finding out
in the hard way that I need to install "libx11-dev",
"libxt-dev" and "libgtkglext1-dev" to get this
package compiled and installed. There is no tutorial
in the web that explains such kind of stuff. I had
to read the error messages, guess the problems,
made an odyssey of trial and error and finally I
had a solution that cost some hours of hard work
and looks as simple as installing three lousy
packages: That is to say "libx11-dev", "libxt-dev"
and "libgtkglext1-dev".

But: Testing something at experimental Linux systems
is one thing. The other thing is that I have to
work with a stable Linux system. And this is
currently Debian Linux Lenny with fvwm "2.5.26",
and this has to work until another Linux system
with newer components becomes stable and I
get the time to customize it. So, also here,
it appears that I ignore an advise of you (using
the latest version of fvwm), but doing this is
simply a risk that I cannot take. All I can do
is making a compromise and test some problems
at my late-breaking test system with the newest
fvwm before I post the problem to the fvwm mailing
list.
Post by Thomas Adam
Without your entire config present, I can't offer an explanation as to why
you get the results you do -- it might very well be that the pager is
closing, but that's different from crashing.
You don't need my entire config. I reduced it and the pager still
disappears (to avoid the term "crash)". I posted all the config
you need to get the minipager disappeared.

What I could do is to remove the second pager: This one that
shows 4 desktops at the same time. If still the remaining minipager
disappears, then it would show that the other pager does not have
something to do with the bug that I found.



Now, I can do these things:
1.) Remove the second pager and prove that the remaining minipager
still disappears, just using this minimum set of config files
that I will post then.

2.) Try out your suggestions about using FvwmButtons, KillModule,
Piperead and so on. This will cost me some extra hours, but
if this gives me a more clean fvwm configuration that still
satisfies my requirements, then I could spend these hours,
learn something and improve the quality of my fvwm config files.
Post by Thomas Adam
So by this point, for each of your defined desks, we have a separate pager
per *page*. Meanwhile, there's only one instance of your minipager running,
it's just sticky. Fine. But if it closes, then it closes completely and
you'll never see it again.
Yeah, but, it is not planned that it closes. It is to run until
I finish the fvwm session and shut down the computer.
Post by Thomas Adam
If it crashed you would get a corefile -- I
promise you that.
I still do not know if my system is able to generate a core
file. The last core file that I saw was sometime around the year 2000
and this was not a Linux system.
Post by Thomas Adam
So I suspect something is closing it.
But, what could it be?
Post by Thomas Adam
I don't know what, I *might* be able to tell from looking at
the rest of your configs,
No. The rest is irrelevant. I removed the rest, restarted the
system and reproduced the bug. My fvwm was completely naked,
only using these 3 config files that I posted, without any
comfort.
Post by Thomas Adam
and even
an ~/.xsession-error log, if FVWM ever printed anything there.
Good idea. If I find something useful in this file, then I will
post it.
Post by Thomas Adam
But the minipager there is a gratuitous "hack" for what is simply a desk
chooser -- something you can use FvwmButtons for -- and this is ultimately
DestroyModuleConfig foo:*
*foo: Columns x
*foo: Rows y
*foo: (1x1, Title z, Action (Mouse 1) GotoDesk z)
A simple desk chooser. This is what I'm looking for.
And it is to highlight the current desk and print a
number at each desk.

As soon as I have time, I will try out your foo thing
(using FvwmButtons to create an instance with the
name "foo" I suppose).

If this thing would solve my needs, then I could stop
wasting my time proving that FvwmPager is buggy...
Post by Thomas Adam
... where: x, y and z, are calculated from $[pages.nx] $[pages.ny], etc.
That's an exercise best left to you to work out -- hint: PipeRead is your
friend here and a simple for(( .....)) loop in sh.
Now -- the part that makes this more interesting is making your requirement
of seeing only four desks per desk for which you're currently on. Well,
DestroyModuleConfig foo2:*
*foo2: new_desk SomeFunc
AddToFunc StartFunction I Module FvwmEvent foo2
DestroyFunc SomeFunc
AddToFunc SomeFunc
+ I KillModule FvwmPager some_alias
+ I PipeRead `[[ $[desk.n] -le 3 ]] && echo \
"Module FvwmPager some_alias 0 3" ||
[[ $[desk.n] -gt 3 ]] && [[ $[desk.n] -le 7 ]] && \
echo "Module FvwmPager some_alias 4 7"`
... etc., etc. Note that I'd use a simple modulo calculation to make this
easier here.
Now -- the interesting part here is that if you made this pager sticky --
you could then also selectively work out within a given range of a desk you
were on, whether you needed to kill the pager or not -- reducing the need to
start it up again each time. But that's just showing off... :)
You think that killing and restarting applications is better
than using the wait function? I'm indetermined, but if you think so,
I could give it a try. At first sight, it looks good. Perhaps
I should post the side effects if I find some instead of dismissing
the whole solution without posting any reason about it, so you
cannot easily blame me for ignoring your advises...



Michael
Thomas Adam
2010-08-30 08:51:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Großer
If you speak about the wait function: I *tried* to avoid the
wait function. I wrote another solution using StartsOnDesktop
instead of the wait function. The result was that fvwm
did not keep the current desk + page anymore after
Post by Thomas Adam
Key Pause A CM Restart
After each restart, fvwm showed a random desktop and page.
Using the wait function, after a restart, fvwm shows exactly
this desktop and page that was shown before the restart.
FVWM will always put you on the last desk/page you were on before you
restarted, unless you have something in your RestartFunction or
StartFunction which says otherwise. In your case, you were still having to
iterate over all the desks to replace your FvwmPagers.

The only reason you've had to go through those hoops in the first place is
because you're using the same module alias many times. If you used
different module aliases, you could do this:

DestroyModuleConfig foo:*
*foo: ...
*foo: ...

DestroyModuleConfig foo2:*
*foo2: ...
*foo2: ...

AddToFunc StartFunction
+ I Module FvwmPager foo
+ I Module FvwmPager foo2

Style foo StartsOnDesk ...
Style foo2 StartsOnDesk ...
Post by Michael Großer
This is the reason why I still use the wait function.
See above.
Post by Michael Großer
You don't need my entire config. I reduced it and the pager still
disappears (to avoid the term "crash)". I posted all the config
you need to get the minipager disappeared.
I'm done with this then. Good luck.

-- Thomas Adam
--
"Deep in my heart I wish I was wrong. But deep in my heart I know I am
not." -- Morrissey ("Girl Least Likely To" -- off of Viva Hate.)
Michael Großer
2011-12-28 23:26:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Adam
Post by Michael Großer
Post by Thomas Adam
Post by M***@gmx.de
Post by Thomas Adam
Post by M***@gmx.de
Hi!
I think that I found the first bug.
I made a combination of pagers for me as shown in the attachment.
Straight in the bottom left corner, I made an FvwmPager that I
called "minipager".
*minipager: Geometry 110x44+2+978
I deliberately chose the 44 to hide the viewports (pages).
I only want to see the desks and nothing else (see the
PNG attachment).
But, this size specification 44 triggers the bug.
The problem is, as soon as I hold down the Shift+Win+Right
key binding (or any other binding - see my attached binding
config file) to quickly scroll through all 12 desks or
to scroll through all 12 viewports for 20 seconds, the
"minipager" disappears. I think that it simply crashes.
Try not to "think" -- it's either crashing or it isn't -- and as I
suspected, I am unable to reproduce this. Note that I am using 2.5.31
though -- a version you should be using, and one I seem to recall asking you
to use before.
So I am afraid unless you can ascertain a corefile for me to analyse, or
provide additional instructions using FVWM 2.5.31 which *still* exhibit this
problem, I am unable to help you.
I just now reproduced this bug in Debian Squeeze with FVWM 2.5.30.
Core dump and/or FVWM 2.5.31 is more complex, so I will try these options
later.
Has there been any progress on this?
Unfortunately no. I have to work to make my customers happy
and earn money :-(
Latest news was: It crashes in "2.5.26", "2.5.30" and "2.5.31".
I don't think it's crashing at all. In fact, I think FvwmPager is as stable
as it's ever been.
Without your entire config present, I can't offer an explanation as to why
you get the results you do -- it might very well be that the pager is
closing, but that's different from crashing.
# start several pagers
AddToFunc StartFunction
+ I GotoDesk 0 0
+ I FvwmPager minipager 0 11
+ I Wait minipager
+ I GotoDesk 0 0
+ I FvwmPager 0 3
+ I Wait FvwmPager
+ I GotoDesk 0 1
+ I FvwmPager 0 3
+ I Wait FvwmPager
... etc., etc. You seem to have not heeded my very original advise to you
regarding *why* the above is problematic. It doesn't have anything to do
with your problem, BTW, it's just mildly frustrating that you're asking for
help and not doing anything with the advise you're given.
It also makes me dubious about how much else you're selectively ignoring,
but it's a Bank Holiday for me, so you get the benefit of my doubt. :)
(And who says I don't live up to my namesake?)
So by this point, for each of your defined desks, we have a separate pager
per *page*. Meanwhile, there's only one instance of your minipager running,
it's just sticky. Fine. But if it closes, then it closes completely and
you'll never see it again. If it crashed you would get a corefile -- I
promise you that. So I suspect something is closing it. I don't know what,
I *might* be able to tell from looking at the rest of your configs, and even
an ~/.xsession-error log, if FVWM ever printed anything there. But I really
don't think there's anything untoward happening here. There's no link
necessarily between continually bombarding FVWM with module commands to
switch desks, and a pager closing/crashing. Heck, I made myself dizzy
switching pages and desks earlier, following your instructions, and still
couldn't get it to crash.
But the minipager there is a gratuitous "hack" for what is simply a desk
chooser -- something you can use FvwmButtons for -- and this is ultimately
DestroyModuleConfig foo:*
*foo: Columns x
*foo: Rows y
*foo: (1x1, Title z, Action (Mouse 1) GotoDesk z)
... where: x, y and z, are calculated from $[pages.nx] $[pages.ny], etc.
That's an exercise best left to you to work out -- hint: PipeRead is your
friend here and a simple for(( .....)) loop in sh.
Now -- the part that makes this more interesting is making your requirement
of seeing only four desks per desk for which you're currently on. Well,
DestroyModuleConfig foo2:*
*foo2: new_desk SomeFunc
AddToFunc StartFunction I Module FvwmEvent foo2
DestroyFunc SomeFunc
AddToFunc SomeFunc
+ I KillModule FvwmPager some_alias
+ I PipeRead `[[ $[desk.n] -le 3 ]] && echo \
"Module FvwmPager some_alias 0 3" ||
[[ $[desk.n] -gt 3 ]] && [[ $[desk.n] -le 7 ]] && \
echo "Module FvwmPager some_alias 4 7"`
... etc., etc. Note that I'd use a simple modulo calculation to make this
easier here.
Now -- the interesting part here is that if you made this pager sticky --
you could then also selectively work out within a given range of a desk you
were on, whether you needed to kill the pager or not -- reducing the need to
start it up again each time. But that's just showing off... :)
Welcome to FVWM.
-- Thomas Adam
When I increased the total number of viewports from 144 to 432 some
weeks ago, I redesigned my approach to manage the pagers (using some
of these advices above). Today, 16 months later, my FVWM config should
be a lot more mature and a bit less dirty compared to the status in
August 2010. But, I still have some wishes and a lot of open sites.

Anyway, when you are already downloading and testing my config from
http://www.jumping-blue-turtle.com/fvwm/will_disappear_on_2012-01-31/8999_bugdemo_001.tar.bz2
, you can have a look to my current approach to manage my 432 viewports
and 36 desktops if you want:

- 0006b_desktop_switching
- 0006_pagers

Organisational levels:

- 3 layers with 3 rows per layer
- each layer contains 12 desktops
- each row contains 4 desktops
- each desktop contains 12 viewports

People who have to switch between an exorbitant number of different,
dissimilar contextes can use this approach to manage their bunch of work.

- You can use <Win> + <F1 ... F12> to switch between viewports.
- You can use <Win> + <arrow key> to switch between viewports.
- You can use <Shift> + <Win> + <F1 ... F12> to switch between desktops.
- You can use <Shift> + <Win> + <left/right arrow> to switch between desktops.
- You can use <Shift> + <Win> + <up/down arrow> to switch between rows.
- You can use <Shift> + <Win> + <Home/End/PgeUp/PgeDwn> to switch between layers.

A builtin memory remembers...
- the last chosen viewport for each desktop
- the last chosen desktop for each row
- the last chosen row for each layer
... when you use the keyboard. Letting the builtin memory come into action
when using the mouse is one of my open sites on my wishlist. I have
to replace the "pagerLarge" by something different (FvwmButtons) as soon
as I have time for such kind of wishes.

Noticeable is that I need years to perfect my FVWM config with my few
time slices I can afford. Years seem to be weeks for me while Linux release
after Linux release whoosh by and the world around me keeps changing at
a breath-taking speed.


Michael
Thomas Adam
2011-12-30 18:56:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Großer
When I increased the total number of viewports from 144 to 432 some
weeks ago, I redesigned my approach to manage the pagers (using some
of these advices above). Today, 16 months later, my FVWM config should
be a lot more mature and a bit less dirty compared to the status in
August 2010. But, I still have some wishes and a lot of open sites.
So does this mean the problem still exists for you or not of FvwmPager
crashing? Only you changed the topic, which suggests it's either gone
away, never existed, or you don't notice it enough for it to be a
problem.

-- Thomas Adam
Michael Großer
2011-12-30 20:36:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Adam
Post by Michael Großer
When I increased the total number of viewports from 144 to 432 some
weeks ago, I redesigned my approach to manage the pagers (using some
of these advices above). Today, 16 months later, my FVWM config should
be a lot more mature and a bit less dirty compared to the status in
August 2010. But, I still have some wishes and a lot of open sites.
So does this mean the problem still exists for you or not of FvwmPager
crashing? Only you changed the topic, which suggests it's either gone
away, never existed, or you don't notice it enough for it to be a
problem.
I have to find out special measurements for each system I run
Post by Thomas Adam
# *minipager: Geometry 110x44+2-0
*minipager: Geometry 110x70+2-0
When I have found special measurements for a system that do
not crash the minipager, then the minipager does not crash on
that system.

When I migrate to another system (other graphic hardware or
other graphic drivers), then I have to tweak the measurements
again until I find a combination of sizes that do not crash
the minipager on that system.

An absolute no-go is to make the minipager so small that
nothing of the viewports will be displayed. This crashes
the minipager in any case.

Since August 2010 I always work with this workaround. It's
better than KDE, Gnome, Windows or anything; but much more better
would it be if anybody would have the chance to find out WHY this
pager is so damageable unter certian circumstances.

As I mentioned on 2011-12-29, 00:26, I think about replacing
the minipager (not the "pagerLarge" as I wrote than by mistake)
by something different (FvwmButtons). This is an idea you
gave me on Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 01:10:42PM +0200. I'm more
skilled in FVWM than back in 2010 now, since I work with FVWM
everyday and I tweaked my config from time to time. It's
only a matter of weeks when I finally have enough ants in the
pants to allow me a break and dedicate myself to the idea
of replacing the minipager by FvwmButtons. When this will
be done, then I will have to find out if this solution
makes me happy.

Well, this is the current status. I'm still claiming that
the pager is damageable under certain circumstances. I'm
still believing that its code contains a little time bomb that
nobody discovered until now.

Apropos "crash": There is no core dump, so maybe you would
wish that I should name it "disappear" rather than "crash".
But the result is the same: When something is wrong, then
something is wrong.


Best regards,
Michael
Michael Großer
2011-12-30 20:40:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Großer
Post by Thomas Adam
Post by Michael Großer
When I increased the total number of viewports from 144 to 432 some
weeks ago, I redesigned my approach to manage the pagers (using some
of these advices above). Today, 16 months later, my FVWM config should
be a lot more mature and a bit less dirty compared to the status in
August 2010. But, I still have some wishes and a lot of open sites.
So does this mean the problem still exists for you or not of FvwmPager
crashing? Only you changed the topic, which suggests it's either gone
away, never existed, or you don't notice it enough for it to be a
problem.
I have to find out special measurements for each system I run
Post by Thomas Adam
# *minipager: Geometry 110x44+2-0
*minipager: Geometry 110x70+2-0
When I have found special measurements for a system that do
not crash the minipager, then the minipager does not crash on
that system.
When I migrate to another system (other graphic hardware or
other graphic drivers), then I have to tweak the measurements
again until I find a combination of sizes that do not crash
the minipager on that system.
An absolute no-go is to make the minipager so small that
nothing of the viewports will be displayed. This crashes
the minipager in any case.
Since August 2010 I always work with this workaround. It's
better than KDE, Gnome, Windows or anything; but much more better
would it be if anybody would have the chance to find out WHY this
pager is so damageable unter certian circumstances.
As I mentioned on 2011-12-29, 00:26, I think about replacing
the minipager (not the "pagerLarge" as I wrote than by mistake)
by something different (FvwmButtons). This is an idea you
gave me on Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 01:10:42PM +0200. I'm more
skilled in FVWM than back in 2010 now, since I work with FVWM
everyday and I tweaked my config from time to time. It's
only a matter of weeks when I finally have enough ants in the
pants to allow me a break and dedicate myself to the idea
of replacing the minipager by FvwmButtons. When this will
be done, then I will have to find out if this solution
makes me happy.
Well, this is the current status. I'm still claiming that
the pager is damageable under certain circumstances. I'm
still believing that its code contains a little time bomb that
nobody discovered until now.
Apropos "crash": There is no core dump, so maybe you would
wish that I should name it "disappear" rather than "crash".
But the result is the same: When something is wrong, then
something is wrong.
Best regards,
Michael
P.S.
I still know that the problem can only be fixed if someone
else than me can reproduce my observations. And I know that
you already tried this.
Thomas Adam
2011-12-30 22:47:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Großer
P.S.
I still know that the problem can only be fixed if someone
else than me can reproduce my observations. And I know that
you already tried this.
I can reproduce it -- and it's entirely some oddity in your config.

-- Thomas Adam
--
"Deep in my heart I wish I was wrong. But deep in my heart I know I am
not." -- Morrissey ("Girl Least Likely To" -- off of Viva Hate.)
Michael Großer
2011-12-30 22:56:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Adam
Post by Michael Großer
P.S.
I still know that the problem can only be fixed if someone
else than me can reproduce my observations. And I know that
you already tried this.
I can reproduce it -- and it's entirely some oddity in your config.
-- Thomas Adam
What kind of oddity?
Thomas Adam
2011-12-30 23:03:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Großer
Post by Thomas Adam
Post by Michael Großer
P.S.
I still know that the problem can only be fixed if someone
else than me can reproduce my observations. And I know that
you already tried this.
I can reproduce it -- and it's entirely some oddity in your config.
-- Thomas Adam
What kind of oddity?
Probably one of the events for new_page specifically, but I care not to dig
into your config as it's a mess. It has nothing to do with new_desk events,
FWIW.

If you wanted, you could compile FVWM with --enable-debug-msgs and see what
that prints out.

-- Thomas Adam
--
"Deep in my heart I wish I was wrong. But deep in my heart I know I am
not." -- Morrissey ("Girl Least Likely To" -- off of Viva Hate.)
Michael Großer
2011-12-30 23:21:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Adam
Post by Michael Großer
Post by Thomas Adam
Post by Michael Großer
P.S.
I still know that the problem can only be fixed if someone
else than me can reproduce my observations. And I know that
you already tried this.
I can reproduce it -- and it's entirely some oddity in your config.
-- Thomas Adam
What kind of oddity?
Probably one of the events for new_page specifically, but I care not to dig
into your config as it's a mess. It has nothing to do with new_desk events,
FWIW.
My sophisticated config is the reason why I offered you slimmed down versions
in the past.
Post by Thomas Adam
If you wanted, you could compile FVWM with --enable-debug-msgs and see what
that prints out.
Sounds like a good idea. When I have time, I will do this, and then I
will send you the print outs, together with a slimmed down version.
A version without focus acrobatics and stuff. I assume that I can
reproduce this behaviour in any slimmed down stage of my config.

Good night!
*logoff*

Michael

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